Crowdfunding campaign by IMA [EN] [FR] -

First!
Lets save our place.

For crowdfunding: www.generosity.com/community-fundraising/ipernity-members-association-a-non-profit-entity

merci ,, en espérant de bonnes nouvelles,, et que si l'IMA s'ouvre,, qu'il ne sera pas qu'en langue anglaise,,,,, c'est une grande communauté ici,, et nous aimerions bien y avoir aussi notre langue,, merci,

Je suis entièrement d'accord pour la langue française...

sinon nous allons perdre beaucoup de contacts,, si la langue française ne perdure pas,, des contacts qui sont restés ensemble au maximum,, pour tenir coute que coute pour l'avenir de notre communauté,

Big thank you to all people that are willing to help !

Audrey: what will happen with the already paid membership fees ??

I have finished getting the donation off to the IMA. Thank you for all that you are doing and have done to keep us informed with the big task ahead. :)

Hello Jaap,
I do not have a premade answer for your question.
At this very moment, membership aren't taken in account, it is a separated action (done by IMA).
We can imagine that if everything goes as expected, IMA will benefit of the membership once ipernity has been takeover. The whole purpose is to support ipernity for a few more month to let IMA prepare their business plan and submit their offer to the shareholders.

i encountered a Problem when attempting to pay in my promised Donation.
This problem is due to a DanishLaw regarding the use of Credit & or Direct debit cards online.
Fortunately another member of the I M A has offered to pay on my behalf and that I should re-emburse him via PayPal when he sends me the reciept for the payment.
John.

Glad you were able to find a solution ... nothing is ever easy is it? :)

Yea!!

Thanks, the offer came to me which I was very glad about. No life is not always so easy, it is the solving of problems that ads to the interest.

Thanks, it would be smart if PayPal was an option.

Yes, this solution worked just fine =) So, if you have Ipernity friend who have no problems using credit card and pay the donation on behalf of you, then just ask her/his help.

I then recommend waiting till the end of crowd funding before switching money between friends. If the project fails, the donors will get their money back, and it would only cause extra trouble to "re-reimburse" the money back to the friend ;-)

Thank you Sami. Yes as you suggest I can wait the few days until the final result is in and that we know if Lady Luck was around during the collection days.

Within days of joining this site in 2013, I have been a paying club member. I did my part... I paid for the service. What I got in return, in the end, is the site owners running it into the ground. And now you'd like those of us, in many cases, who already paid to turn over more of our hard earned money? How about telling us what steps you'll take to prevent the site from coming full circle? Further, you wouldn't even have needed additional funds out of the pockets of paid members if you'd taken the additional step of enforcing fees on free accts. older than 3mos. Add to this the promise of a 50€ fee which will price out more than 50% of your active acct. holders....

I will stick around to see what happens to this site, but more of my money... no way.... I don't trust the current ownership to do the right thing for ensuring the site survives (best predictor of future behavior is past behavior) and I have no confidence in the IMA keeping my contacts from being priced out --- and contacts is the whole reason for many of us to use this site in the first place and why some are fighting so hard to try and save it -- especially since every time someone brought up the exorbitant fee they were met mostly with silence, ridicule, or insult. Nor would I trust either to refund what amounts to an investment if efforts to save this sinking ship fail. Besides that, I don't have confidence that the IMA has or will be able to attract the personnel needed to run this platform -- by their own admission there's no tech. person involved in this venture. If the site survives & reasonable rates remain in place, I'll happily pay for my use of the service.... But I don't feel I owe a BUSINESS which has failed to uphold its end of the service contract to paying customers or mismanaged those funds more of my money....

Sorry, but that's the reality of the business world. Deliver or fail -- unless you're a big bank or car company in the USA, then look to the gov't for a bailout ....

I get why people made financial promises of support.... I don't want to lose my contacts either (first and foremost) and I do prefer this platform to other alternatives .... I am just far more discerning about where my charitable contributions and/or investments go.

This isn't pessimism.... It's the real world. And in that world, ipernity ownership lost the loyalty of many paying customers with their mismanagement of this platform. Maybe if you changed the name entirely or ensured new ownership was in place it would inspire more confidence. The plan for moving forward toward success is woefully short on details... It's not really a business plan at all. If this were a startup looking for investment capital there's no way anyone would support it. Trying to save a failed business is even riskier and requires a lot more info. to potential investors -- not to mention those customers of that failed business the new ownership MUST keep.

I'm sure some will attack for my daring to say all the above.... Which is fine, it's your right.... But it will not change reality nor the minds of those of us who choose to deal in reality more than slim hope.

Daar zijn we weer met een geweldig negatieve bijdrage (de zoveelste).
Begrijp niet goed waarom u nog langer lid blijft van Ipernity met al uw gezeur, gesteun en gekreun.

This is a bailout.
And other than you wrote it's not the government paying for the companies, it's the citizens, the tax payers.
Same here - the digital citizens of Ipernity are paying.....

You mentioned you've already paid for the service. Thats right. But now it is about paying for the company. IMA tries to take over Ipernity. And different from any startup investors do not look for a financial yield, they ecpect no return except their social online life. So you can't compare this with a startup company.

I agree, if IMA would promise a 10 % p.a. ROI I wouldn't pay a single cent. But this is not abaout business ;-)

I remain because I am a PAYING customer. It's my right to be as annoyed as I want to be at the failures of the site owners to maintain the site and prevent it from getting to this point.

I remain because I, like you. have contacts here I value. And I like the platform. And I invested a lot of time into the content being hosted on the site.

If you don't like someone pointing out the realities of this mess, then put your rose-colored glasses on and go throw money at the mess instead of reading my posts ;)

But as long as I still have a "club" membership, I am a customer.... And as long as that's true, I have every right to voice my concerns regarding the running of this site. If my membership runs out before the future of this site has been figured out or decided, I will leave since, at that point, I don't really feel entitled to an opinion about the mess that's been made of this platform. And they will have lost yet another customer.

Until then, feel free to ignore my posts. It's funny how you don't really know what your "contacts" are all about until they start attacking you for speaking the truth, though....

Fizgig - I am so sorry that this transition (hopefully there will be a transition) has been so hard for you. It certainly can be frustrating on many levels and I understand and agree with many of your issues.

I'm glad you will stick around to see if we make it.

While you can't/aren't willing to donate - would you be willing to post about the crowdfunding around the site and elsewhere? Maybe that is outside of your comfort zone as well, but if not it would be greatly appreciated - and who knows? Perhaps we will survive and tiered membership will appear and scholarships for those in need. I think this platform is worth putting the energy into (even if money support isn't your thing).

peace,
laura

I try not to take any notice, I find this sort of negativity boring and selfish, there is no thought given to those of us who sincerely hope the initiative succeeds.

Very true Maurice, too many pessimists around.

Trumpiaans: "alternatieve feiten".

Well said Laura.

"I remain because I am a PAYING customer. It's my right to be as annoyed as I want to be at the failures of the site owners to maintain the site and prevent it from getting to this point."

There we have the problem of our current society, I pay so I don't have to care for anything. We should start to care more about the things around us, maybe we will change your buisness reality some day and in the end have to pay much less for our live around us. I get sick when thinking about how our society changed more and more into paid services everywhere, it's time to go back to local societys like clubs with people that realy care for each other and help keeping it alive while still paying for the running cost. The IMA as a non profit project has the potential to transform this buisness into such a society, there is now reason the club model shouldn't work in the internet too!

Well said! =) Just today I realized we are the IMA! This is why we need to start seeing each other more as members than customers. I hope IMA turns out a success.

Well said 'madSec'.

Add a PayPal button to crowdfunding & I`ll donate some. Best of luck !

This is a problem that a lot of people are having. While I don't know why that option wasn't included in this fundraiser, I do know that at least one person has gotten around it with the help of another member.

May I suggest that one of your contacts may be willing to help you out (donate, then you paypal that amount to them directly) or perhaps you have a local friend that is willing to let you use their credit card and you pay them directly?

I am just brainstorming here - I hope you find a way. If not, please post again your issue and maybe there will be a solution in the next few days.

Also, even if you can't donate for whatever reason - you can help by posting about the crowdfunding anywhere you can.

peace!

Yes, please, please add a Paypal option. It really must be possible.

According to the information I recieved via e-mail the collecting company 'Generosity' does not support PayPal, there are also several countries that they have not made agreements with concerning the use of credit cards, Denmark isunfirtunately one of them.Luckily Sami Serola made an offer to help which I accepted.

The I M A have no say in the matter other than they selected the collection company.

The IMA (William) has now said why 'Generosity' by Indiegogo became chosen. The information just become so scattered on these lively discussions. William replied to me:

"Indiegogo is the only service that charges 0 fees for non-profits. Every other service charges a minimum of 8% + a portion of the monetary donation bringing real charges in excess of 12% at times."

And he obviously means 'Generosity' by Indiegogo. Then on another thread it was pointed out PayPal actually has become reluctant to support any sort of crowdfunding: techcrunch.com/2016/05/09/paypal-will-no-longer-protect-your-crowdfunding-cash

I'm in ! -- Let's give Optimism a go.

I agree with Jaap. We need optimism for a new beginning. I have donated.

www.ipernity.com/blog/cjm-ellipse/4651396
Christine Jurion-Meunier has been instrumental in many translations. We owe her much gratitude.

Have seen some questions re:If this doesn't work - what happens to the monies donated to Crowdfunding IMA . Read the entire article.

Peggy....

Is it possible to put a PayPal button for the donations?

Very good idea.

Sadly it is not. Indiegogo decides the method of payment they will accept. IMA has no say. :(

I googled the benifits and drawbacks of using indiegogo to crowdfund projects.

www.shopify.com/guides/crowdfunding/indiegogo-benefits-drawbacks
Fees

Indiegogo charges two kinds of fees in addition to a credit card or PayPal processing fee.

If you go with Flexible or Fixed Funding, Indiegogo charges 5% of your total sum raised along with payment processing in the 3-5% range depending no location. If you fail to reach the goal, you get charged nothing because you don’t receive anything at all.

So why have they not given the option to use PayPal for IMA. ( Have I misunderstood their payment options ?????????)

Indiegogo actually offers two options. I suppose 'Generosity' was chosen because it is more suitable for this cause than 'Indiegogo':
support.generosity.com/hc/en-us/articles/212016158-FAQs-for-Organizers

"Should my campaign live on Indiegogo or Generosity?

Generosity is a place for people to raise funds for themselves, a loved one or a nonprofit. Indiegogo is a place to raise funds for a creative or entrepreneurial pursuit."

"How do donors give to my fundraiser?

Anyone with a credit card can donate to your fundraiser. Generosity accepts Visa, Mastercard, Discover, and American Express. At this time, we do not accept prepaid cards. Other third party payment processors, such as PayPal, are not available on Generosity."

Supported & hoping for the best.

Please put a PayPal button on. If you can not, let us know as soon as possible. I would much prefer to contribute through PayPal, but if that is not possible, I will just pay by charge. I want to support this fine community.

Esther,

Sadly IMA cannot add this option. Indiegogo determines the method of payment they accept. While I had funds in my Paypal account for this purpose, I had to use my credit card instead.

Here... staying here... VERY realistic.. and sick of the negativity

Been going through this for FIVE years with another international site .Seen the same negativity but we are still there 5 years later.

No.. there are no guarantees .. but as I recall there are NO guarantees about still being alive tomorrow !!

SO.. as I said.. here and realistic.. and THANKFUL for those who have got us this far..

Well said Pam, although people can be skeptical if they choose. I for one will remain positive and hopeful and continue to respectfully disagree with negative comments.

Thank you for the update! I wish I could donate at this time, but I regret to say that I cannot, but I can and did PM all my contacts to give them the link to this article. :-)

I hope and pray that everything works and that we can enjoy ipernity for many more years to come!

Sadly I'm unable to donate money, I was unable to get groceries this week due to other bills needing paying. I do hope IPernity stays.

Jenny... you are not alone. Please DO tell folk though.. spread the news around.. that will help everyone !

Hugssssssssssssssssss

It's perfectly understandable Jenny, we have a wide range of users from all over the world.
As Pam told you, if you cannot participate, you can still share the information.
Thank you.

Your wish for Ipernity to survive is just as valuable and necessary as a money donation!

Jenny,

You do not need to apologize. Your personal expenses and bills are far more important. Take care and God bless.

I have a question, not for me directly: I already made my donation to the crowdfunding.
What will happen with club members who paid their clubmember fee and do not participate on crowdfunding? Will they be allowed here? Will they be refunded of their fees? I offered someone a 2 year membership few days before the closing anouncement...and since then he almost gave up photography and is not willing to participate.
Thanks for your answer...

Hello,
I do not have a premade answer for your question.
At this very moment, membership aren't taken in account, it is a separated action (done by IMA).
We can imagine that if everything goes as expected, IMA will benefit of the membership once ipernity has been takeover. The whole purpose is to support ipernity for a few more month to let IMA prepare their business plan and submit their offer to the shareholders.
For the people who won't or can't participate for any reasons, it has not been decided yet.

Ok, obrigada, merci...

"What will happen with club members who paid their clubmember fee and do not participate on crowdfunding?"

I'm not sure but I have understood this funding is only for helping the IMA get started. It is totally not limiting who will be accepted as members when IMA finally takes control. And when it does, then very likely all current Ipernity members are asked to join to IMA by paying the planned annual 50€ fee. Moreover, I suppose all current free users have something like option to try service for limited time.

So, the crowdfunding is totally based on the generosity of kind people to help IMA get started, nothing else. But as said, that is how I have understood this =)

ich würde gerne die 50 Dollar überweisen, aber ich habe und will kein Facebook Account und ich habe keine Master- bzw. American Expresskarte, die nur jährliche Kosten verursacht und bei Einkäufen nur Kosten verursacht. Mit meiner kostenlosen Bankkarte /EC Karte von meiner Hausbank kann ich weltweit Geld abheben und in Europa in jedem Geschäft oder Hotel bezahlen. Frage, wie kann ich trotzdem das Geld überweisen?
Eine weitere Bitte: Es gibt viele deutsche Mitglieder, die die englische und französische Sprache nicht 100 %ig beherrschen. Vor allem nicht bei Fachbegriffen. Daher wäre eine vernünftige Übersetzung der Statements angebracht, da die Google Übersetzung oft sehr schlecht ist.

On generosity.com you can also choose option email address instead of Facebook account. I used VISA credit card, and had no problems at all.

And sorry for reply in English. That is only language I know well enough, besides Finnish ;-)

I choosed the way over the email adress, but there you need still a Creditcard like Visa-, Master-, American Express Card. But I have no one of these Cards, because I have a European Card from my house bank. I need another possibility to pay for the donation. and I think there are a lot of members in Europe, which have the same problem.
Why shall I pay for a Visacard or American Axpress, when I have a European Card, which cause no expenses.

William naturally chose a service that he found the best. There is also very little time to get this done. Therefore I personally well understand and accept the choice William did on behalf of IMA.

If everyone can't or don't want to use this option, I think it is not crucial (or I hope it is not). More important was to get the fund raising started as soon as possible.

And as I have tried to suggest here, you may try to rely on your friends here at Ipernity. I understand all money transactions, like using credit card, also cause additional costs. I still see it more important to act swiftly than to do nothing, or do something too late =)

Indiegogo is the only service that charges 0 fees for non-profits. Every other service charges a minimum of 8% + a portion of the monetary donation bringing real charges in excess of 12% at times.

That explains why indiegogo's 'Generosity' indeed is the best option =)

I want to pay my donation, but it would be demanded that a member and friend on Ipernity, who know me only by Internet to pay for me the donation with the hope, that he will get the money.
Also from a data protection point of view, it is very doubtful to give the details of the privat bankaccount just to a stranger over the way Internet.
There should be a possibility to transfer the donation by PayPal, or by bank transfer on a bank account.

That is how we are going to get things done with Stormlizard. I use my credit card to pay for both of us, and then we use PayPal to transfer money between us.

I don't know Stormlizard in person, but I trust him. And even if he would fail to pay me for some reason, I still would feel happy taking the credit for supporting IMA even more than I originally planned ;-)

If someone will pay for me, and I can pay him back over PayPal it is ok, but I will not search and ask under all my friends on Ipernity, if someone will make this.

If situation starts to look bad after few days, and you don't find anyone else, then contact me =)

But I here challenge also others to help each other ;-)

Did send you an email with my bank account.

herzlichen Dank

Just donated for you

Thanks a lot for your help, I did the transfer to you.
See you in the new Ipernity community.

Happy to see you got help =)

No need for worries Sami, I will as agreed re-emburse you using PayPal.

As many above state several European countries have not made agreements with either 'Generosity' or the Parent company, neither will they accept PayPal which to me is strange as they as with PayPal areAmerican companies.

The reason why not PayPal has been pointed out by Bergfex here: www.ipernity.com/doc/autofantasia/44467388?lc=1

And here's a direct link to the article at TechCrunch: techcrunch.com/2016/05/09/paypal-will-no-longer-protect-your-crowdfunding-cash

I completely agree with Schussentäler, I already requested the PayPal button for the donations.

I suggest we all need to start collaborate even more if and when IMA aka us takes the control. Within IMA we are no longer customers but indeed members of the community.

We all can advertise the web site, and we all can help each other. For example we can seek for relevant information and answers to avoid misunderstandings ;-)

La version française est maintenant disponible sur le site de la campagne :-)

J'aimerais une possibilité de don en euros.

Bonjour Bernadette,
La somme est convertie directement par votre banque sans frais au taux du dollar en cours.

pas sans frais. vérifié auprès de ma banque

Idem para mim...

Just posted a screenshot of where we are at after Day 1 ... no Copyright on this one either so feel free to download and then upload/post wherever you feel is appropriate:

Looking Good Folks ...

Thanks Paul, a brilliant idea except that it downloads as a GIF file.
EASY TO OVERCOME, i MADE A SCREEN SHOT OF YOUR PAGE THEN CROPPED ETC.

Sorry, but you must be how you're trying to download it. If you try to right click save an image from ipernity it will always save itself as a GIF.

You need to go to the photo in my photostream and then click on Actions, scroll down to See All Sizes and finally click on the Download the original format of this photo. Do that and you shouldn't have any problem getting the original JPEG file or just follow the link below and then click on the download icon. Hope that helps! :)

www.ipernity.com/doc/autofantasia/44469812/sizes

Hello Paul.

I right clicked the picture and selected 'Save as', as it did the wrong thing I just came back to make the screen shot of what was shown, enlarged and cropped and saved what I needed as a JPEG file. I did not think of looking through your photos for it.
Thanks but it was no big problem, just a few seconds of work.
John.

Leute, so geht das nicht. Ich wollte gerade eine kräftige Summe anweisen. Nicht nur, dass ich das in Dollar machen muss, warum nur, ich soll auch noch mein Kreditkartenummer, den Sicherheitscode und das Ablaufdatum auf einer mit völlig unbekannten Interenetseite angeben. Von Sicherheitsproblemen hat hier wohl noch keiner was gehört. Das widerspricht allen Geschäftsbedingungen, die ich zur Nutzung der Kreditkarte unterzeichen musste. Da kann ich die Daten ja gleich öffentlich an eine Plakatwand schreiben.
Verdammt noch mal, richtet ein PayPal Konto ein! So gibt’s von mir nichts. Obwohl ich will.

There is a "https' site, which in my opinion is quite safe.
I think it is the same way where one books a hotel, airline ticket and so on.

I googled the benifits and drawbacks of using indiegogo to crowdfund projects.

www.shopify.com/guides/crowdfunding/indiegogo-benefits-drawbacks
Fees

Indiegogo charges two kinds of fees in addition to a credit card or PayPal processing fee.

If you go with Flexible or Fixed Funding, Indiegogo charges 5% of your total sum raised along with payment processing in the 3-5% range depending no location. If you fail to reach the goal, you get charged nothing because you don’t receive anything at all.

So why have they not given the option to use PayPal for IMA. ( Have I misunderstood their payment options ?????????)

I read somewhere else Tess that Generosity, which is the arm of Indiegogo that the IMA have elected to use doesn't allow Paypal transactions! :(

Generosity does not permit paypal because it charges 0 fees. In choosing Generosity, it was important that the crowdfunding effort maximize all contributions. Had a fee option been chosen, more than $1000 would have already been lost.

['m confused, but I think you can help. The crowdfunding says 50,000 euros are needed just to make it to the end of 2017, but you're only crowdfunding $25,000 USD (23,000 euros). Where will the other 27,000 euros come from? Is there a business plan we could review before deciding whether to contribute?

I suppose crowdfunding for an amount of $25,000 is a compromise in a though situation. People can pay even more, if they want, but hopefully at least requested amount become collected.

I recall seeing somewhere the minimum amount of money needed right now is actually $10,000, to pay the March and April server costs to Amazon. Ipernity S.A. can not help to get that payed anymore. That is one of the conditions on negotiations between IMA and Ipernity S.A., that IMA will take care of server costs from now on.

When people were asked how much they are willing to pay so called "crises money" (crowdfunding), the kind people arranging IMA were not yet knowing when and where the money would become needed. Now is the first situation when money is needed and fast! To get server costs payed, and get the negotiations between IMA and Ipernity S.A. finished.

So, I guess it was better to ask "little" than to ask too much at this point, to get the required money collected as soon as possible.

$25,000 buys us (to IMA) time to keep the service running and find out how to run the service. Time to collect money for actual membership costs will come later on.

It is also important to understand Ipernity S.A. and IMA are totally different entities. Those who have paid club membership to Ipernity S.A. even till next year, have to deal with Ipernity S.A. if they ever wish to get their club membership payments reimbursed after IMA (hopefully) takes the control.

This is the minimum amount. However, it allows for no transition before membership dues are collected nor contingencies for unexpected expenses such as correcting a platform problem that may occur. The full amount is needed to buy sufficient time and offer stability.

Thanks, Sami. That helps clarify things.

Thanks, William. That's useful information.

A friend of mine has just had problems with the post code (zip code) not being accepted. I believe it's a problem with other people too. As of yesterday he has now paid a full 2 years Ipernity membership as a good will gesture.

This doesn't seem right to me. Surely it is up to Team Ipernity to take that club membership payment and donate it towards IMA crowd funding as a good will gesture on their part.

Ha anyone else been having trouble with postcode / zip code acceptance? A friend of mine has told me this and he is not alone in having this problem.

Yesterday, as a good will gesture he paid a full 2 years membership to Team Ipernity.

This doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't Team Ipernity donate that to the IMA crowd funding as a good will gesture on their part?

It is important to understand Ipernity S.A. and IMA are totally different entities. Those who have paid club membership to Ipernity S.A. even till next year, have to deal with Ipernity S.A. if they ever wish to get their club membership payments reimbursed after IMA (hopefully) takes the control.

Then what comes to this idea of "challenging" Ipernity S.A. join to current crowdfunding is a good idea, but it can be difficult to arrange. I fully understand your suggestion, but in such a short notice it sounds rather complicated procedure. Ipernity S.A. should contact each and every club member and ask their permission to use the money like this, instead of (possibly and hopefully) reimbursing the money back to them when IMA takes control.

William on behalf of IMA has just yesterday advised people not to pay for Ipernity Club membership anymore because there are no guarantees on what Ipernity S.A. would do with the money paid to them. Instead of now paying to Ipernity S.A. anything, it would be more vise to do as some of us have already done. If you have troubles on participating to crowdfunding, then you can try to find someone else willing to help you to donate on behalf of you, and then you reimburse the money to that person via PayPal.

See the discussion here: www.ipernity.com/group/2260604/discuss/186764