New Membership Model (draft 2)

Is the monthly upload maximum for Premium " - " an oversight?

(-) means: There isn't any limit, same as it is today for club members.

Great, then guests also have a limit-free, monthly upload volume. ;))

I think this is a valid objection. In all other places "-" means that a feature is not available. But with respect to monthly upload limit for Premium it is thought to mean "unlimited". Perhaps the infinity character would be more appropriate here similar to "Entries (max)"?

I agree. The word "none" might fit better than "-".

Yes, Guido, the infinity sign would be better suited to be on the safe side legally and to avoid misunderstandings.

Well, "none" would be another option.

Wouldn't the order "Premium – Economy – Guest" be better?

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Propositions for change:

Should the text for additional storage mention "per year"?

Maybe replace the endless sign with the text "no limit", for people who don't know the sign.

Is the line "See private content" necessary? I feel "yes" in the three columns is not correct, because it depends on the definition of the person who posts the content.

The PayPal Logo is too stretched.

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PS: It's difficult for me to read the text because the biggest size I can find is 800x500 px.

According to my observations, usually such offers are listed in reverse, i.e. from left to right, here for example Guest - Economic - Premium.

"no limit" would be another good, unmistakable formulation instead of the endless sign.

"Font size ... This chart is only a Photoshop draft."

What I meant was: when I click on "See all sizes" of the picture the biggest version I get is 800x500 px. I'd like to see the original size of the uploaded picture/screenshot, which I'm quite sure is bigger.

www.ipernity.com/doc/team/47727634/sizes

Good suggestion on the order: Guest, Economy, Premium (left to right) and inclusion of "No Limit" - it reads better. Excellent work to all!

what means Entries(max.) ?

Native speakers explained to me that "Entry" is the umbrella term for any form of uploaded file. (photo, video, audio, text, zip, etc.)
Bernhard (ima)

I LIKE IT!!

Thank you, Bernhard! Just one more question: for "Economy" tariff, the Member of Groups is limited to 20 and also Picture in Picture is not available. May I ask you to explain to me the expediency of such restrictions if you know? After all, the availability of these functions without restrictions does not suppose additional financial costs, don't reqiure additional resources of the site and additional human labor. So why is this limited? I try to consider "Economy" as a possible migration option for me, but with these restrictions, I will consider it unprofitable, and probably I will have to leave Ipernity. Please understand me correctly - even such a small amount as 27.5 USD allows me to buy bread for the family during 2 months. This is a powerful reason for doubt - what choice to make. Once again, I ask you to excuse me: of course, today's realities of my country are my personal problem, this does not concern anyone, I just want to understand before making a decision.

The economy tariff cannot be the current club tariff at half price. Then one could have simply halved the club price and would not have had to worry at all. But then ipernity would be out of business immediately, because the income would not cover the costs anymore.

There must therefore be a quality difference that makes the premium account so attractive compared to economy that it is also booked in sufficient measure.

Perhaps you can understand it by the example of a place in a cinema: All costs are the same for each seat: room costs, film distribution, heating, personnel. Nevertheless, there are more expensive places with better visibility, and cheaper places with worse visibility. The same goes for you when you go to a concert.

So the prices are not only based on the costs. There must always be a (luxury) advantage for the financially strong and willing to pay, so that they take up the higher-priced offer. They subsidize the whole thing, so they make it possible to offer cheap tickets at the other end, which we call "economy".

Addendum: The promotion of economically weaker people through a tariff model is hardly feasible. The differences in purchasing power between the countries of the world are too great. However, the Amazon Web Service only bills in hard US dollars. In addition, there are also very large differences within all countries. When booking from Venezuela, where poverty is extreme, as we all know, one of the really rich, for example, can simply register his account via his unemployed, incomeless wife. Would that be fair?

But there are some people here at ipernity who think about the subject and maybe offer some solutions. Please have a look at the blog to see how the discussion develops.

I have had a job as proof-reader and editor so I am letting you know of several errors that I found in your chart.

1) In the opening paragraph, you will need to change the word in this line: "...continuous improvement of the website are coverded... (should be "covered").

2) Also in the opening paragraph, No revenues are generated... (should be "No revenue is generated")

3) The prices listed in the blue areas are not consistent: one has a comma and the other has a period to denote the price.

3a) Consistency issue: the prices in the blue boxes have a "/ year" but one doesn't have a space after the slash, the other does.

4) The last blue box says enregistration (should be "registration")

I agree on the suggestions that the image should have the option to be larger, as the text is quite small.

I was impressed by the marketing science that went into the order choice of pricing, but it's still a very odd arrangement because it's natural to think in terms of small, medium and large, and the way it is right now you have medium, large, small. In this case, I don't think that using marketing psychology is a good idea because people are used to a normal pricing structure.

I think that for visual clarity an en-dash instead of a dash would be a better choice, as a normal dash is just too short.

"I have had a job as proof-reader and editor"

Thank you for chiming in! :-)

"order of pricing ... odd"

I agree. Yes, we read from left to right. Which means what you want me to see first (= the premium membership) should be on the left.

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Text above the donate button [English is not my first language, though]:

"No member ... benefit from their contribution ..." [unless all in the team are men]

Last sentence:
"If you are in favour with this initiative, you are welcome to support it with a donation:"

Replace with
"We are always glad for donations to help us improve ipernity."
?

Thank you for the updates and the bigger sizes of the screenshot :-)

Looking at it now it should probably be (above the paypal button) "their contribution to", not "in".

I really don't want to be stubborn now, but I do want to point out that visual merchandising is always about increasing the length of stay and the attention of potential customers. An effective means is not to serve habits because the unusual increases attention. Even to the point of (apparently) chaotic arrangement, which is, however, well-calculated. Furthermore, the attention puller must always be in the middle. (Even if we don't like Flickr, take a look there: Pro stands in the middle, the edge offers stand at the edge. That's professional.)

I haven't had a chance to read all the comments here yet, but I wanted to quickly reply to your comment here. I feel that we probably have about as many full pay members as we will get at the moment. More will hopefully come over time, but that one of the main reasons to create this 3 tier option is to get some free users (of this site and of other photo sites) to start paying something. That means that the Economy option really is the one we want them to notice. That means putting Economy in the middle.

The very first thing I thought when I saw the graph was how odd the order of options was. I vote for the order to be left to right, Guest, Economy, Premium.

[edited to add: My first choice of order is Guest, Economy, Premium. But I would also agree to Premium, Economy, Guest. I agree with Janet that it just feels like something is wrong when Premium is in the middle - and at first glance if I feel something is off like that, then it feels unprofessional and I don't trust it as much.]

Ik wil een poging doen naar het nieuwe model voor abonnementen te kijken door een marketing bril. Het is voor een gewoon lid van ipernity niet makkelijk een goed oordeel te vormen, omdat daarvoor het inzicht over onderliggende cijfers ontbreekt. Ik vind ook dat er nu plotseling veel haast wordt gemaakt met een definitieve keuze op 30 november.

Ik heb geen problemen met het Premium (behalve de naam, maar daarover meer hier onder) en Gast abonnement. Mijn probleem zit in het Economy abonnement.

Economy:
Voor welke doelgroep is dit bedoeld ??
Ik lees iets over Google + (kan ik niet beoordelen) en ontevreden Fl…r deelnemers. Ik vraag met werkelijk af of dit abonnement voor de laatste groep aantrekkelijk genoeg is en hoe of ipernity deze groep denkt te bereiken. Ik vermoed ook dat de grootste boosheid bij Fl…r gebruikers over de aanpassingen al weg zal zijn. Ipernity is daarvoor te laat.

Ik ben ervan overtuigd dat het qua marketing verstandig is om in eerste instantie de eigen 20.000 niet betalende leden aan te spreken. Altijd geleerd dat het makkelijker en goedkoper is bestaande klanten/leden uit te diepen, dan nieuwe te werven.

Ik geloof dat de stap van USD 0, - naar USD 27,50 veel te groot is. Waarom hebben er slechts 160 niet betalende leden gereageerd op het returnee aanbod van een paar maanden geleden, toen zij voor hetzelfde bedrag een heel jaar Club lid konden worden ??

Ik heb al eerder een symbolische bijdrage voorgesteld. Stel zoiets weer voor (ipernity light):
Bijvoorbeeld 500 entries / 1,25 GB opslag. Moet naar mijn idee kunnen van USD 10,-.
Zo’n bijdrage van USD 10,- kan ook een einde maken aan de discussie over het niet kunnen betalen van een abonnement. Want voor USD 10, een jaar lang je foto-hobby kunnen uitoefenen, moet toch voor iedereen betaalbaar zijn.

Hoe te realiseren:
- sterfhuisconstructie: vanaf nu 3 jaar herhaling van de actie van het beëindigen van slapende accounts ( = 3 jaar geen enkele activiteit). Daardoor zullen in ieder geval de kosten afnemen. Ik vermoed dat er in december 2019 - 3 jaar na de aankondiging van het einde van ipernity - een groot aantal van die accounts zullen zijn.
- Een aantal keren een mailing aan de doelgroep niet betalende leden; te beginnen met de nog actieve (uploaden van foto’s) leden. Is er bekend hoeveel dat er zijn ??
- Samen met de introductie van een 3 maands proef abonnement moet dat op redelijke termijn een einde maken aan de gratis gebruikers.

Namen:
Ik ben voorstander van het handhaven van de naam ‘ipernity Club’ en de introductie van ’ipernity Light’. Club heeft voor mij een emotionele waarde en doet mij in ieder geval denken aan iets van een community. En waarom moet iets wat bekend en ingeburgerd is veranderen ?
(Niet wijzigen bespaard misschien ook nog kosten ??)

I want to make an attempt to look at the new model for subscriptions through marketing glasses. It is not easy for an ordinary member of ipernity to form a good opinion, because he lacks insight into the underlying figures. I also think that there is now a sudden rush to make a final choice by 30 November.

I have no problems with the Premium (except for the name, but more about that here below) and Guest subscription. My problem is with the Economy subscription.

Economy:
For which target group is this intended?
I read something about Google + (I can't judge) and dissatisfied Fl...r participants. I really wonder if this subscription is attractive enough for the last group and how ipernity will reach this group. I also suspect that the biggest anger among Fl...r users about the changes will already be gone. Ipernity is too late for that.

I am convinced that in terms of marketing it is wise to address the 20,000 non-paying members in the first instance. Always learned that it is easier and cheaper to deepen existing customers/members than to recruit new ones.

I believe that the step from USD 0, - to USD 27, 50 is far too big. Why did only 160 non-paying members respond to the return offer of a few months ago, when they could become a Club member for the same amount for a whole year?

I have proposed a symbolic contribution before. Propose something like this again (ipernity light):
For example 500 entries / 1.25 GB storage. In my opinion it should be possible of USD 10,-.
Such a contribution of USD 10,- can also put an end to the discussion about not being able to pay a subscription. Because for USD 10, to be able to exercise your photo hobby for a year, it has to be affordable for everyone.

How to realize it:
- mortuary construction: from now on 3 years repetition of the action of ending dormant accounts (= 3 years no activity at all). This will in any case reduce the costs. I suspect that in December 2019 - 3 years after the announcement of the end of ipernity - there will be a large number of these accounts.
- A number of times a mailing to the target group of non-paying members; starting with the still active (uploading photos) members. Is there a known number of such members?
- Together with the introduction of a 3 month trial subscription, this should put an end to the free users within a reasonable period of time.

Names:
I am in favour of maintaining the name 'ipernity Club' and the introduction of 'ipernity Light'. Club has an emotional value for me and reminds me of something of a community. And why should something that is known and well established change?
(Don't change maybe also save costs ??)

Translated with www.deepl.com/Translator

Hi Jaap!
- At the moment there are only 65 "free" accounts (untouched >3 years) left. We did not delete them because the account holders have admin rights in several groups. A deletion could lead to further trouble. The storage space requirement of those few accounts is insignificant, because the invisible contents of them have been deleted in the meantime.

- Different price offers are currently causing a huge amount of change in the program, because many tables with different currencies would have to be adjusted. It would be much easier to operate over the booked time. So it would be conceivable to offer the free users a "first sign in offer" to the economy account for the transition period until April1, 2019, for the price of 22.95 EUR for 2 years. That would come close to your idea of about 10 USD / year. We would then not have to implement a new "product", but would be able to register via the time-flag.

"Economy: For which target group is this intended?"

In my understanding:
- for people with previously free accounts who want to stay but don't want to pay USD 49.50.
- for new members who don't want to / can't pay USD 49.50.

"Sleeping accounts": can not imagine that the 20.000 - 65 = 19.965 accounts are still active. My suggestion is to take time to delete the sleeping ones; for instance the coming (3) years.

"first sign in offfer": sounds for me as 'just' an offer to the free users. For me not the solution of keeping as many non-paying members as possible on board in the long term.

Für mich ist der Vorschlag rund. Alte Zöpfe werden abgeschnitten, eine Neuausrichtung ist spürbar. Endlich traut man sich durchzuführen, was schon vor über einem Jahr angekündigt war (Danke Jaap für den Hinweis. Wusste ich noch gar nicht.) Die neuen Begriffe finde ich gut. "Club" hatte immer was elitäres, abgekapseltes. Jetzt fühlt es sich offener an, weniger miefig wie Clubzimmer mit Zigarrenqualm, Whiskey und verschlossener Tür. Auch ist Marketingverständnis erkennbar. Einen Preisvergleich mit Flickr unmöglich zu machen, indem man etwas nicht Vergleichbares anbietet, ist der richtige Weg. Das alles jetzt noch gut einpacken, und dann los.

The Premium column seems to be offering three ways in which the Premium facilities can be enjoyed: a full year's membership at $49.50, a 6 month membership at $27.50, or a 3 month free membership that will expire if not upgraded. If I an correct then I suggest that the word free should be changed to Free. Using the upper case F would make it clear that the 6 month membership and the 3 month membership are not linked.

> ... or a 3 month free membership that will expire if not upgraded. If I an correct then I suggest that the word free should be changed.

Or:

Premium
USD 49.50 / year
USD 27.50 / 6 months
Free trial / 3 months *)

Yes, that seems to me to be clearer. Thanks!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Advices for fine-tuning considered up to here.

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EXCELLENT update! I'm pleased to be able to contribute!! :)

Ich habe im Zusammenhang mit Preisgestaltung von Abo-Modellen noch nie was von "rates", "fare" oder "tariff" gelesen, sondern eigentlich immer von "Plans & Pricing". Vielleicht können sich nativ-speaker dazu noch mal äußern.

Was den "sozialen" Aspekt angeht muss ich offen gestehen, der Vorschlag geht mir zu weit.
In Teilen eine Art "Photo-Tafel" mit Berechtigungsschein zu etablieren ...
So gut das gemeint ist, aber man sollte diese Plattform nicht überfrachten.
Bernhard so wie Du es angesichts der Umstände mit Recht ablehnst, auf jedes individuelle Wehwehchen (Zahlungsmodus) einzugehen, so sollten man die Plattform jetzt auch nicht mit mit der Berücksichtigung von "Wohlfahrt"-Gesichtspunkten überfordern. Es wäre schon schwer genug, wenn es eine rein europäische Angelegenheit wäre, aber weltweit. Bei allem Verständnis für Empathie und Altruismus, aber da habe ich ein ungutes Gefühl.
Ich finde es schon schwer genug unser Modell als solche einigermaßen erfolgreich zu etablieren und am Leben zu erhalten. Man sollte vom Idealismus der Mitglieder nicht zu viel erwarten.

Ik ben het volledig met je eens. Elke hobby kost geld en ik geloof niet dat met het voorgestelde Economy tarief van USD 27.50 ( = ca. 0,50 cent per week) - of het door mij voorgestelde ipernity Light van USD 10,- - het voor iemand onmogelijk is mee te doen. Immers men beschikt wel over een foto-camera/smart phone, computer/tablet en een internet abonnement .....

Ich stimme Ihnen vollkommen zu. Jedes Hobby kostet Geld und ich glaube nicht, dass es mit dem vorgeschlagenen Economy-Tarif von 27,50 USD (= ca. 0,50 Cent pro Woche) - oder dem von mir vorgeschlagenen ipernity Light von 10 USD,- unmöglich ist, dass jemand teilnehmen kann. Schließlich hat man eine Fotokamera/Smartphone, Computer/Tablett und ein Internet-Abonnement..................

DeepL Translator

Ich beantworte das mal im Blog.
Hier möchte ich mich auf Beiträge zum Feintuning der Angebotspräsentation beschränken.

Was die Wortwahl betrifft, müssen wir uns tatsächlich auf die Muttersprachler verlassen.

Hi Jaap!
Einen eventuellen einmaligen Fischzug würde ich ungern als "ipernity light" mit Namen belegen und institutionaliseren. Wir haben schon genug Schwierigkeiten, die jetztige Differenzierung abzugrenzen. Lass uns erst mal bei 2 Stufen + Guest bleiben.

Genau darum geht es : "Diese Plattform nicht zu überfrachten.". Ein Spendenbutton ist m. E. noch ok. Spenden über ein separates Konto abzuwickeln auch, damit keine Einkunftsarten vermischt werden. Die Spendenverwendung mit Umweg über eine Förderung von sozial Schwächeren ist kein Nachteil. Das Geld landet schlussendlich sowieso im Gesamtbudget.

Doch sollten wir weder die Plattform überfrachten, noch das ima-team mit Aufgaben. Es hat genug mit der Betriebsführung zu tun. Eine Allokation gegensätzlicher Interessen in einer Arbeitsgruppe ist außerdem kontraproduktiv.

Vielleicht warten wir einfach mal ab, ob überhaupt Spenden eingehen, und in welcher Höhe. Wenn sich tatsächlich ein Betrag ansammeln sollte, über den es sich zu reden lohnt, können wir ja immer noch darum bitten, das sich Leute finden, die die Verwendung steuern. Zurzeit hat das Thema wenig Relevanz.

Hi Bernhard,
"Light" war nicht als dritte Möglichkeit gedacht, sondern als Ersatz für "Economy".

"Light" instead of "Economy".
"Club" as it is. Not "Premium".

[solved]

Manu, I remarked that later, so i deleted this ... but too late ;-))

:-)

Es ist tasächlich vorgesehen, das test-Angebot nicht auf "economy" zu beziehen, sondern auf "premium", um alle Features schmackhaft zu machen. Ob sich der/die Nutzer/in danach für "Premium" oder "economy" entscheidet, bleibt ihm/ihr überlassen.

A technical remark:

- Trial period gets all the features from Premium
- Person decides to stay and to pay for their account, but in Economy.
- What happens to the things they could do during the trial, but are not possible in Economy?
(Upload other formats than jpg, create groups, files that are bigger than 2,5MB, ...)

If there is a solution for that: fine.
If not: should the Trial period have the Economy features, not Premium?

Gute Frage, auf die wir so im Detail noch keine Antwort haben. Aber natürlich muss all sowas im Rahmen der Implementierung beachtet werden.
Ich persönlich bin ja schon froh, dass die Gemeinschaft sich nach nunmehr anderthalb Jahren überhaupt auf eine gemeinsame Vorgehensweise verständigt hat! Nun wweiß auch das ima-Team als Exekutive, wohin sie weitergehen soll.

Edit: this was a misunderstanding on my part. "Download original" means from other people, not my own.

It feels wrong to me that downloading my own content in original size is not possible in Economy.

[...]

I guess you can always download what was uploaded.
So if you had uploaded more than 2,5 BM per photo in the past than you can download it.
But if you choose the Economy plan in the future you can upload only till 2,5 MB.
Others makes no sense (in my opinion).

"Download" betrifft eigentlich nur das Herunterladen fremder Dateien, soweit sie vom Urheber dafür freigegeben sind.
(Der Download eigener Datein macht doch wohl kaum Sinn. Die hat man doch sowieso auf seiner Festplatte und in den persönlichen Sicherungs-Backups, oder?)

"Download" betrifft eigentlich nur das Herunterladen fremder Dateien, soweit sie vom Urheber dafür freigegeben sind."

Ah, danke.

"Der Download eigener Datein macht doch wohl kaum Sinn. Die hat man doch sowieso auf seiner Festplatte und in den persönlichen Sicherungs-Backups, oder?"

Ja, aber in ipernity habe ich die Bilder, die ich nutzen will, in Alben und mit tags organisiert. Ich nutze 'Download - Original size' für meine eigenen Bilder recht oft (zweiter Account).

Tu ich auch manchmal aus reiner Bequemlichkeit. Diese Bequemlichkeit darf aber ruhig ein paar zehntel cent (pro Zugriff) wert sein, also "premium", oder?

I am all right with what is being presented.
But for one thing:
I do not want to see the club badge going away.

Dear Marta,

remember that "club" is not a nice word in the German-speaking area. It has an unpleasant connotation. It is commonly used, for example, as a combination of words: "tennis club", "sailing club" or "golf club". Such clubs are mainly reserved for the affluent upper class. In addition, "club" is still common in the red light milieu: "night club", so puff. (Franz Josef Degenhardt, German singer-songwriter of the 68ths: "Sind Sie mit Glied oder ohne, denn sonst kommse hier nich rein...". Translation: Mitglied = member, "mit Glied" = "with cock". Such associations are not beautiful from a branding point of view.

All this might be overlooked because it is an (albeit unpleasant) ipernity tradition. But by introducing an additional tariff level, namely "economy", we should no longer use an excluding term for the other tariff level. (In front of a typical club, in which only club members are allowed, stands a decorated doorkeeper who rejects non-members.) But we do not want to reject the economy users. They belong in the future exactly the same to the community. They only pay a little less because they use less power.

Therefore it was necessary to look for another term that describes more the economic aspects. "economy" is quite common for reduced offers ("discount" would sound like trashy). "premium" is common for enriched offers. This term means high-grade, best quality, outstanding, top-class, outperforming. Above all, however, it refers to the offer, and no longer to a group of people who are isolating themselves.

Oh dear,
it is so hard to follow all those specific cultural differences.
In Poland club is good. Club is noble. Club is something what you want to belong to.
Once again I am learning to see and adopt the bigger picture... ;)
Nevertheless, Economy seem to me a bit offending. Premium as well.
Last week I was promoted to be regarded and serviced as a premium customer at my bank.
I was given an individual bank handler / advisor and I am still not comfortable with it.
But it is only me...
I wonder how many members from Poland do we have here and if I am a typical Polish or an exception.

I'm with you Marta. In the Netherlands 'club' is nothing special. Just something you want to join for your sport or other hobby. For me Economy and Premium sound quite commercial.

Is it so? Yes!
Economy and Premium does not go well with non-commercial ipernity status!

Oh yes: voetbalclub, dansclub, kaartclub, visclub. fotoclub .....

may be it is a solution to offer the rates named as economy and premium, but only to show the existing "club" badge to mark paying users, but not to tell their statur publically.

1) light:
Synonyms are: small equipped, low density, poor in content, slimmed down, floosies ... (light arms, light cigarettes, lightweight, "leichte Mädchen" ...) . Such associations aren't so good, are they?

2) club:
One could still be able to ignore the cultural subtleties. But club always expresses a closed society. It describes a group of people, not a product. So far, it might have been bearable in the past, even if it often triggers unpleasant associations in Germans.

But what is new now is that we are placing two products next to each other. The choice of words must be logically consistent and either refer to the group nature in both cases, or to the product in both cases. I think it is highly dangerous to refer them to the group nature, because we do not want a division within the Community. We are one Community in which two different products are used. So we should use a term that refers to the product property. Often "Pro" is used. However, this is not possible, because people might think that we want to imitate Flickr.

Ipernity light = Ipernity with less features
It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less.

Keep in mind, please: "Ipernity is an independent, non-commercial photo sharing community with more than 25,000 active registered users worldwide." (www.ipernity.com/about/us) (No website, no tool mentioned in the first sentence, the key message!)
It would be unfortunate to semantically separate the community into two parts. Some members might feel offended.
The website is our tool only. It's a technical product. We are talking about our tools, not about subgroups of our community.

Yes, Light and Club and Guest sounds good. Even better do you think: Member and Club and Guest?? Keep it very simple. ...

If you call it two parts, they have been there since the beginning. But as a (proud) Club-member I never felt it in that way. Club was (and is) for me nothing more than a badge to mark full paying members.

Sorry, Frank, but that's just not logical. You can't juxtapose two terms, one of which expresses a trait, but the other a group of people. Even more so when you divide the fellowship we conjure up in this way into two halves.
You're new here and may have to internalize that the term "ipernity" has undergone a change of meaning in the past 12 months. This is no longer just the tool, but the community as a whole. The members proclaimed: ". . . WE are ipernity . . ." Within the ima-Team we discussed this demand in detail, weighed it up, and finally published it everywhere.
www.ipernity.com/about/us
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipernity
(and at much more places, even within all meta-descriptions of our website. It was a huge lot of work, believe me.)

And the not "full" paying are outside? No part of the community?
I'd prefer to integrate them! They are not second class.
(And please forget the pride. Pride usually leads to nothing good)

"This is no longer just the tool, but the community as a whole. " Thank you for confirming this, Bernard, this was the message of my recent blog post. Thank you also for making things more clear for me, in a kind way. So if you are looking for a word instead of 'Economy' would that word be 'Community' then? So it would be 'Community' and "Club" and 'Guest". Just trying to help as honestly 'Lite' dosn't work for me. Because from what you are teaching me, whether you are a Premium or and Economy, your are a paid member and 'Community'.

(Edit) the other thought is to let it go as is and see if it causes confusion .. .I don't think ti will, but, yes we can find better words.

That's what I think, Frank. And of course I understand very well that emotions are attached to the term "club". In fact, however, we have much greater challenges to overcome. I'm going to let that go and dedicate myself to the long overdue French translation of the chart.

And I'd like to ask you: Do you have any idea how we can effectively roll out the concept in the Flickr community as of next Friday?

"Do you have any idea how we can effectively roll out the concept in the Flickr community as of next Friday?"

I will have to think deeply about this, Bernard. One thing is the founders of Flickr always communicated in the Flickr Centeral group. I think this roll out should be, or at least look, as organic as possible. So the Flickrinos don't get the idea ipernity is 'advertising' over there. With that said, i have been thinking once all is in place here to go into my active Flickr groups and start a thread on Flickr alternatives (it might be better to wait until the Flcikr terms come into effect and people over there really are in chaos. ) So, I would then suggest all of us here who are on Flickr to start conversations in our active groups.

Finally, as much as it would be nice to see a mass Exodus from Flcikr to Ipernity, we may not be able to handle it, I don't know. This is why I think it might work best for slow migration of developing members here and letting word spread, and watch it grow. I spend much time listening to audiobooks and podcast interviews of founders and their biographies. The main theme I keep hearing is slow grow sticks more than fast growth. My 2¢.

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but, you are welcome to link to my blog post on this subject if it might be helpful in some way?

Über Deine mehr oder weniger "erotischen" Assoziationen zu "Club" und Light" bin ich doch ein wenig überrascht ;-))
Neben den offensichtlich kulturellen Unterschieden, wie eine Bezeichnung für jemanden "klingt", erinnert mich diese ganze Diskussion um die Namensgebung der Bezahl-Modelle ein wenig an Leute, die bei der Suche nach dem Namen für ihr Kind, den einen oder anderen Namen non vorherein nur deswegen aussortieren, weil sie bestimmte Namen mit jemandem assoziieren, den sie - aus welchen Gründen - nicht leiden können.

Also ich sehe Club und Premium als Bezeichnung ziemlich entspannt und wenig elitär.

Aber ich habe mich mal auf dem Markt der Photosharing-Seiten umgesehen und folgende mögliche Varianten gefunden:

Premium (mit Abstand am meisten vertreten), Power, Intermediate

Als Alternative zu Economy gab es: Basic (finde ich am neutralsten) Standard, Starter, Beginner.

Wenn man es ganz neutral (nicht elitär und unverdächtig hinsichtlich schmuddel-erotischer Assoziationen) haben möchte, könnte man Premium auch "Standard" nennen, denn das soll ja wunschgemäß die Standardvariante (im Sinne von hoffentlich am meisten vorkommend)
und die Economy-Variante neutral als "Basic" bezeichnen.

Ja, ich hab etwas dick aufgetragen. Irgendwie hatte ich das Gefühl, dass einige ausländische Freunde einfach nicht verstehen wollen, dass Club im Deutschen nicht nur was Schönes ist, sondern elitäre oder schmuddelige Assoziationen weckt. Man kommt ja auch kaum dran vorbei. Jedesmal, wenn ich bei Kufstein über die Grenze nach Deutschland fahre, springt mir beim Kreisverkehr riesengroß die violett-rote Leuchtreklame vom Nachtclub Atlantis ins Auge.

Aber, ich glaube, wir können das jetzt wirklich loslassen. Denn Du machst genau das, was man immer tun sollte, wenn gegensätzliche Positionen unvereinbar gegenüber stehen: Eine kreative Alternative suchen. Eigentlich wäre das sogar meine Aufgabe als Moderator gewesen. Asche auf mein Haupt.

Deine Vorschläge drücken genau das aus, was angedacht ist: Den höherwertigen Tarif als "Standard", und den anderen als "Basic". Ich denke, Du hast damit einen guten Ausweg aus dem Dilemma aufgezeigt. Ich werde die Begriffe dem ima-Team vorschlagen.

Thank you Frank!

Your assessment is helpful. We will consider it in the next few days when we in the ima team decide how offensively we want to proceed, or how reticent.

Ja, ich hab etwas dick aufgetragen. Irgendwie hatte ich das Gefühl, dass einige ausländische Freunde einfach nicht verstehen wollen, dass Club im Deutschen nicht nur was Schönes ist, sondern elitäre oder schmuddelige Assoziationen weckt.

Ik heb ergens het gevoel dat buitenlandse vrienden niet begrijpen dat club in Nederland een doodnormaal woord is (voetbalclub, kaartclub, visclub, tennisclub ......). Oh ja er zijn in Nederland ook nachtclubs, maar daar stoort zich hier niemand aan.

(Overigens vind ik de oplossing 'standard' en 'basic' prima.)

Ich habe das Gefühl, dass ausländische Freunde nicht verstehen, dass club in den Niederlanden ein tödlich normales Wort ist (Fußballverein, Kartenclub, Angelverein, Tennisclub..............). Oh ja, es gibt auch Nachtclubs in den Niederlanden, aber das stört niemand.

(Übrigens, ich denke, die "Standard-" und "Basis"-Lösungen sind in Ordnung.)

DeepL tanslator

Ja, dat is het wel. Ik weet dat dat normaal is in Nederland. Rob en Suse, onze vrienden uit Amsterdam, gebruiken het woord ook vaak. Het gaat er echter niet om of iets in het ene land normaal is, maar of het in een ander land problematisch is. Zo moest Lorena Rape uit Diepholz (D) bijvoorbeeld haar achternaam veranderen toen ze in New York begon te modelleren. Omdat verkrachting in de VS als naam verwarring zou hebben veroorzaakt. Dus nu noemt ze zichzelf Victoria Rae: www.tt.com/lebensart/lifestyle/14788741/model-lorena-rae-wird-vierter-deutscher-victoria-s-secret-engel

In any case, thank you for the committed discussion. It was it that finally brought to light the even better terminology that has now been found. I will incorporate it into the chart later.

As far as I can see, there are hardly any contributions left to the real refinement of the above chart.
Please discuss the general questions in the blog. It makes my work easier, because I don't have to check every post to see if it belongs to the opinion picture, or if it is really a factually substantiated change request to the chart.
Thank you.

Speaking on the offer presented only, it looks fine to me. Lets see how it is received especially by the present free members (I don't want to detail it now, but want to say the Guest should have at least ten to fifteen downloads so their profile page looks more full and presentable).

Side note, when I saw this on Twitter today, I was also looking for an email, did you send one also? I checked the box in my account to get email updates, is this what it is for? Thanks!

You are very dedicated, Bernard, and very good at this. Thank you very much!

Erklär mir das mit Twitter mal genauer.
Die Übersetzung verstehe ich nicht.
(Womöglich deshalb, weil ich Twitter nicht nutze?)

I saw this at the link on Twitter, but did not find an email of the same.
twitter.com/ipernity/status/1066583255812636672

I got a hunch. Sami Serola and Marco Novosel sometimes upload something on twitter. Maybe they have arranged it?

Ah ..okay. I'm asking if or who sends the email, because if you want members to see this it usually is that email is 40 times more effective than Twitter or Facebook. But if some members tweet it then I understand. .... thank you Bernard.

The fact that you stumble over it shows that the selected order is effective. Why it is meaningful, although unusual at first glance, is explained in detail above.
In short: A main rule of visual merchandising is, that the attention puller must always be in the middle.

"The fact that you stumble over it shows that the selected order is effective."

I don't agree. I stumble because it's illogical.

You mention flickr as an example in an earlier post about that.
www.flickr.com/account/upgrade/pro

Yes, the attention is in the middle - because the middle option is presented much more prominently. The order is lowest to highest price, from left to right.

---

So if you leave it as it is for me clearly "Economy" is what you want me to see first.

Visual marketing is more about psychology, less about logic. In the game with the unexpected one makes use of many unconscious perception processes.

Your suggestion to emphasize the middle even more fits. But that brings us to the detailed questions, which we'd better leave to the web designers who will help us later. We are not there yet. Here it was mainly a matter of discussing how the offers should be differentiated from each other in terms of content. Nevertheless, I'll try to incorporate the emphasis in the blueprint somehow, so that the idea doesn't get lost. These days we are only defining the direction in which we want to go. None of everything has yet been checked for feasibility. That will be the next step.