A lively debate has been going on for a few weeks now concerning the group promotions in the comments under the photos.
We have taken into account the arguments and suggestions of users that are for and against this and therefore we have decided to bring some improvement to the service that we hope will satisfy everyone.
We still do not wish to have the comment field being used to promote groups.
Why is that?
All these comments posted without any limit and with the same format bothers viewing the other comments. Even if from the start the intention is good the result depreciates the overall quality of the service.
Some users made us the remark that the suggestions to groups that is done by the "suggest a group" button was only visible to the owner of the photo while the suggestions posted in the form of comments were visible to all visitors.
Good remark!
Some other users indicated that the "suggest a group" function was limited to groups where someone is either an administrator or moderator.
Good remark!
Here are the results we are going to bring in the next few days:
1) You will soon be able to suggest whatever group you are a member of (at this time only those that you are an administrator or moderator).
2) All the suggested groups will be displayed on top of the comments and visible to all visitors.
3) You will be able to decide if you want to deactivate the feature of group suggestions in your space. In this case, nobody will be able to suggest groups to you.
03-03-2014 EDIT
4) You will be able to decide whether group suggestions made on your photos are visible to your visitors or not.
5) Group administrators will define who can suggest to add photos in their group (administrators/moderators only or all the group members)
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Please note that these improvements are in the process of being developed and will be available in a fortnight. We will announce it on this blog.
Catch you soon,
The ipernity Team
It will be great if every photo can be be invited by any group-member, but nobody other than the owner of the photo need to know it to which groups a photo is invited. Otherwise this function will be miss-used again, just to display the groupnames until the owner of the photo decided to deny the invite.
Addition notes to 2. made by David here:
If every member is allowed to invite content to a group the moderation of a group will became pointless because invited photos pass the moderation-queue without any additionally moderation?
In this case this option should be selectable by group-admins, I don´t want participation of group-members in this way at all my groups, just for some of them.
Ipernity: Are your point 3 about invites to group in general (by admins and moderators of this group, too), or just for invites done by users of the group?
So - is it possible to set your preferences in a way your photos could be invited to groups by their admins and moderators, but not for members of a group like it is as of today?
And may I add: Interesting to see the people who are complain about already gone groups because every member got kicked out of them are the same members who had done it. So what they are complain about?
Also funny to see some members ever want to discuss about spam comments.
.. most of the people I've met in here are intelligent; have good sense; think things through - certainly don't need to be 'told by a few' how they should/should not think..
.. agree with Spamwich 4 trolls - 'a step in the right direction' .. even tho small.
.. it still an odd thing that so many 'pseudo-adults' can't just agree to disagree ---
.. just sayin '
Enabling users to disable "Suggest a Group" will only hurt groups and further stifle interaction.
Second, the main issue is not about suggesting groups. It is about use of Group names and/or graphic awards in the comment section. Ipernity needs to address this issue -- allow users to disable comments featuring graphic awards/group names so that those who want them to know where their photos are being viewed and commented on can also be satisfied.
I believe if members were surveyed, a large majority would have no problem with the latter. Why not offer every member a survey to satisfy customers?
Treasa Ui Cionaodha has replied to William Sutherland clubGive members options to run their page as they wish.
All of the rest I agree with you 100%
Regards Tess
I THINK THE FOCUS OF A PHOTO WEB SITE SHOULD BE THE PHOTOGRAPHS
What comes below the photos can be of interest, but isn't really the point. Having huge amounts of energy put on comments and their use makes me feel that the whole point of this website is being disregarded. That's too bad.
I like having a conversation with other photographers. I like letting others know I've seen and enjoyed their photos. I like commenting from a more technical perspective with perhaps some ideas about composition or lighting. I like having conversations that help me and others continue our learning about this wonderful art. I like knowing where people found my photos as it helps me get to know them and their interests. But if this site doesn't want to promote these things, that's okay. I can still post photos here and look for that conversation elsewhere. I don't need to keep others from posting or not posting certain things since, again, that's not the point.
All the current comment issues are not deal breakers for me.
AS LONG AS THE RESTRICTIONS ARE REALLY STYLISTIC ISSUES, I will not leave the website.
I find freedom in comments useful, but I will not leave the website if I can no longer tell people in what group I found their photo. I won't agree with it, but I will survive. As someone else said - if I want to control everything I can make my own website.
Ipernity displays photos in a manner that works for me (unlike the place I left that makes them display as a stream and bunched up - not honoring the photo itself). That means I will continue to post here and to search for photos by others to enjoy.
Let's get back to photography.
Jaap van 't Veen club has replied to raingirl clubPeggy C club has replied to raingirl clubMarko Novosel club has replied to raingirl clubA continued lack or resolve of this issue has so far led to so many groups closing and many members leaving Ipernity. It is my opinion that if you do not address this issue finally and immediately many more will exit ipernity.
The reason is simple. No link back to where image was viewed equals a useless point to posting images to groups.
Regards Tess
Nous pouvons, si nous le voulons, supprimer tout commentaire qui nous déplaît....Alors en quoi quelque commentaire suggérant ou non que l'on a vu une photo dans tel ou tel groupe peut gêner?
Que vous refusiez des images, je le comprends, mais un lien? Pourquoi une telle dictature?
Ces groupes étaient fort intéressants, réunissaient le nec plus ultra de ce qui faisait la richesse d'Ipernity! Comment peut-on détruire tout cela? Cela me dépasse!
Nous sommes ici pour partager pas pour nous disputer: C'est puéril!
Faites vite, très vite quelque chose pour arrêter cette hémorragie car je crains fort que nous ne perdions ces membres à jamais!
ୱ Kiezkickerde ( ͡°… club has replied to %name%or You keep warm and frequent contacts with each of them? in my opinion, you are the biggest spammer on Ipernity, maybe that's why your account has been suspended for a long time a few days ago?
ୱ Kiezkickerde ( ͡°… club has replied to FallnetömUnd falls nicht: twitter.com/TrappedAtMyDesk/status/322095820864372737 wäre eine andere Idee. Gefunden auf www.viralnova.com/twitter-cancer
.t.a.o.n. has replied to Fallnetömin der tat, töm, aber ist es nicht interessant zu beobachten, wie die lieben kinderlein sich gegenseitig mit sand bewerfen und dann nach mama iper schreien, dass die das regelt ? :-)
und mama versucht nicht zu schlichten, mama regelt - zurück bleiben die kombattanten mit augen voller sand und nicht wenige mit feuchten windeln... :-)
If database makes it possible, then why not combine 'favorites' (stars) and groups seen on right margin under 'See also'? There on right margin it could be displayed how many times the viewed picture has been chosen as favorite under each group.
Then one could find out how popular the currently viewed picture is under each group.
Ticket No: #29055
Hi Lea
You continue to ban any link back such as “seen in” “optional text codes” or “small graphics” saying that they are “Promoting Groups” and therefore in your opinion this is SPAM. As said before there is no point in having groups in Ipernity if there is no link back or any kind. Banning the above optional link backs has led to many groups closing and individual members leaving Ipernity.
You propose to allow “Suggest A Goup” as a suitable remedy for the above. . You have come closer to allowing group promotion and therefore Spam by introducing this proposal because I and any member can just suggest groups without ever visiting the group to share images within the group, or and commenting on images within the group
I fail to understand what it is you hope to achieve with your new proposal. I do however understand how we have arrived to this sad and sorry point.
It started with your interpretation or what SPAM really means Link backs are not SPAM (as you have been told by many. . They are simply only an acknowledgement of where an image was viewed. This was welcome to the majority including myself. For those who don’t like link backs you have provided many options to please them. ( Including the delete comment option)
Failure on your part to address these issues with viable solutions, have reduced the Iperntiy into a shambles. You have in effect started an exodus from Ipernity. You are putting nails in your own coffin. So in the end It will for the majority of members. IPERNITY RIP.
Like many I feel like I am talking to a brick wall when trying to get some interest from Ipernity to listen to the majority. But I can’t help trying
Regards Tess
Polyrus has replied to Treasa Ui CionaodhaBut I am all for people being able to invite photos to groups they belong to... I don't agree with people who feel that "seen in" comments are the only way to see which groups a photos is part of --- there is a whole list on the right side of the photo page (put in the effort to join a group and see how things go and if the activity level isn't to your liking simply leave). Furthermore, people are using the "seen in" stuff as the sum total of their comment. For photographers, what group their photo was seen in is less important than what the person who saw it thought of the content. If people didn't abuse the "seen in" comments so much -- many posting on the same photo over and over and over for every group they see it in -- the use of them would likely not be such an issue.
I for one thank the ipernity staff for slowly coming to the conclusion that some more changes and allowances need to be made on this front. It's a shame that people cannot discuss these things in a civil manner and demonstrate patience and understanding that a system which has been in place for a while takes a lot of effort to change. It's not easy to code these types of things... And on the other side, owners of these types of photo sites need to be a bit more open to change and improvement when they have paying customers.
And for those folks who can't seem to be satisfied with this site or any other.... There are plenty of places you can set up your own website for your own work for free, invite your like-minded friends and leave the rest of us alone. It isn't fair to the rest of us who have the ability to compromise and to recognize when others are making efforts to accommodate our wishes that you keep picking and picking until you destroy the experience for yourselves and everyone else. If you don't want to scroll past others' comments on someone else's work, then don't -- enjoy the photo and move on -- but please don't try to dictate to the owner of the work what they should and should not accept in the comment fields as you the viewer have the option to not look at those comments, nor are they intended for you to look at in the first place.
And for the staff... You really do need to be more vigilant and proactive in removing those whose only aim is to ruin the site for everyone -- on both sides of arguments. There are a LOT of great members here and they should not suffer at the hands of a few extremely intolerant & closed-minded individuals. You'll also find that giving more leeway in how groups function will not make this site into another Flickr, but more vibrant and attractive. If people didn't like the underlying function of this site, they wouldn't be so vociferous about changes they'd like to see and freedoms they'd like to have in using it. Berating, mean-spirited, rude comments are useless, I agree, and not worth your time... But many have voiced their opinions in civil tones and do appreciate the strides being made to accommodate their wishes.
So, yes, thank you for the coming changes in advance... I do hope you consider the suggestion of having invited photos go into the queue for groups who are using it to manage content in their groups.
Your words "There are many solutions Ipernity could have taken to accomplish this. It is their insistence in their definition of what they call Spam which will hinder the growth of this site. What is trash to one is treasure to another! This will not change. It is only by giving members true choice in how they want to interact on this site that will allow it to grow!"
If link back's to groups are considered spam then your suggestion of "suggest a group" is also spam. You are contradicting yourself here.
Failure of the IP team to reconcile it's position is bringing it down the road of self destruct. Not the few that everyone is blaming. ( They are not worth the response people have afforded them. they are what they are (Intolerant of others views) and personally prefer to ignore them) I am blaming you IP and you alone
Regards Tess
You know, best estimates are that the civil war in Syria has taken about 100,000 lives. (Seen in the New York Times.) About 7.3 million people die of cancer every year worldwide. (Seen in cdc.gov.) About 3.5 million people in the United States are homeless. About 1.5 million of these people are children. (Seen in the National Coalition for the Homeless.)
Meanwhile, the number of people killed or injured after reading the words "seen in ..." on somebody else's ipernity photo page remains approximately zero. The number of people killed or injured after having some group administrator bothered enough by those words to remove a photo from a group also remains approximately zero. We are intrepid. We will persevere.
This is about the dumbest thing to argue over I've ever seen, and I used to watch C-SPAN. I feel stupider for even bothering to comment on it. People need to get over themselves. Go take some pictures. Learn to be happy.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha has replied to Jim BoyntonEach member has the ability to delete a comment that offends him/her whether it is graphical or written. They can also block a member from their page. What more does one need?
Let the members police there own photo gallery to content they want in their comments with the simple tools that are already in place. Enforcement of these new rules suggest by the system is draconian and a waste of time and provide no end value to the growth of this site.
An excellent photo site provides all its members which will be like-minded in a mired of different ways to be able to come together in their like-mindedness (Contacts)... old members must embrace the new members but they don't have to be your contact. Let them be what they want to be and have in their gallery and comments section.
If you don't want to be part of what some other members are and want to do then don't participate and block yourself out from them. To contact or not to contact, to block or not block, to delete or not delete. that is the question here.... and the answer is really easy; it is up to you and them.
I just love to take pictures and share my eye of the now and then through my style of photography. I like to view and comment on my contacts work ( which by the way inspires me to do new things in photography ) when I can. I'm not in this for the number of view or accolades...If you like some of my work and I have brought inspiration or admiration through it then that makes me feel glad I am doing what I am doing... it brings me joy and I hope your work does the same for you.
Let's get on with bringing joy to ourselves and others and have fun with this. That's my 10 cents on this.
Sami Serola (inactiv… club has replied to foto buffTreasa Ui Cionaodha has replied to foto buffYou could not have put it better. I totally agree with the overall content of your comments above.
What annoys me more then all this group rambles, is the lack of respect that is shown here.
People calling each other names, insulting the Ipernity team which tries to do what's best etc etc. Please, let us get on with making pictures, with showing our views at life and the world, and spend our precious time at things that really matter.
Jaap van 't Veen club has replied to EefjeTreasa Ui Cionaodha has replied to EefjeExactly. It makes no sense to add a photo to a group and then complain their is link back to what group the image was "seen in". This is were I am also lost.
In addition you are right in saying the lack of respect some have shown to others here is annoying . I find it is appalling.
This thread has been hijacked by certain individuals ( notably the same few ) who persist when debating their point of view are often insulting to the person they are answering.
Me, I absolutely hate graphics in comments. I always deleted them on flickr and avoided groups that used them. But I have no objection to a textual reference to a group although I don't think it's necessary as the groups a photograph has been added to are already listed on the photo page. I do however not appreciate if the comment consists of *only* this reference, i.e. without an actual comment on the image.
One thing that I have noticed and that annoys me more than anything are people who will comment multiple times on the same image. I've seen some people do this, sometimes as often as 10 or 12 times!, and I must be a real simpleton because I've been puzzled by it. The only explanation I could come up with had something to do with the Explore system here as it is based on popularity of an image (a very bad idea by the way but that's a different issue). So pushing an image makes that image more eligible for Explore and maybe these people are hoping their contacts will leave the same ridiculous amount of comments with their own images. But now I understand that it has to do with promoting groups? But whatever the reason is, I wish they would stop doing it.
Most of the groups are boring as hell so maybe good thing would be to be more creative,go into the wood and leave those f...... groups.
I'm tired and I think it's time to stop.
An administrator of a group has banned me (why? Thing I have ever done that is so terrible for her?)
And now I have to be careful in what post, where post, who may or may not see my posts. But what nonsense!
A group of people, that before this mess was attending my space, now I do not see anymore, patience (I think we lose both, but everyone is free to make its own choices, I respect them), but who needs all this?
Everyone return to his role (take pictures, post them, comment on those of others - or create a group, look for other enthusiasts in this particular topic and so on), no one arrogate the right to tell others what they can or can not do but, finally, close it here
My one cent contribution!
Large numbers of Group members never even show the common politeness to reply to any comment written about their work.
I have no knowledge of Flickr so cannot comment one way or the other about that site.
My reason for being on Ipernity is to be able to share not only my photographs but many other things too exactly (or as near to it) as I did on my previous Cyber home at Multiply com.
On Multiply there were thousands of Groups, but not only for Photo display, many were single subject (Travel in XXX - Breeding of different animals and birds etc, etc.).
Yes, Trolls, and other types of Trouble makers existed too, but as with here it was easy to block them or have them removed from the service completely.
John.
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- -
!
U
Treasa Ui Cionaodha has replied to Kathleen Thorpe clubThe fact that we have lost so many groups and members here in IP attests to the dissatisfaction and frustrations of so many members who also like you and me into been fooled that we had found a nice home to get along with the only thing we want to do. Share our love Photography.( as you said.
Regards Tess.
"All these comments posted without any limit and with the same format bothers viewing the other comments. Even if from the start the intention is good the result depreciates the overall quality of the service."
Determining what is bothersome is quite subjective. What bothers some people's viewing experience may be welcomed by others. One person who occasionally visits my photostream and comments on some of my photos always leaves the same unvarying comment on those photos, "great shot". Others also leave equally generic comments. One could argue that those types of comments are also bothersome to those who are viewing the comments and begin a campaign to ban them. I, for one, welcome all comments, including "promotional" and generic ones. It means someone who has taken the time to look at one of my photos has, for whatever reason, decided that punching a few keystrokes to let me know is worthwhile.
Imposing subjective "quality of service" standards like banning comments perceived to be "bothersome" invites the kind of controversy as has arisen over "seen in" comments. The issue is more convoluted because "seen in" comments are considered to be promotional rather than informative in nature. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has resulted in an apparent total ban on any mention of a group in comment fields. However, based on the the reasoning for the ban as stated by Ipernity and quoted above, I surmise that Ipernity is really not objecting to group promotion per se, but rather to the "bothersome" effect they perceive the practice has on a comment stream when numerous such comments, particularly those with graphics, appear under a photo. I also suspect, that their objection is not only because some site users find it bothersome, but also because their idea of "quality of service" probably includes a desire that a comment be about the photo itself and not just consist of a "seen in" statement. When "seen in" is placed by itself with no other comment, I tend to agree that is is promotional in nature. Also, I can certainly see how they would consider this practice to be bothersome, particularly when it includes graphics, by cluttering up the comment field with repetitive images that bury in their midst any, hopefully, more substantive comments others might like to see about the photo itself.
I almost never use graphic comment codes or even simple "seen in" statements. I'm also not a particular fan of those who just post a "seen in" comment without adding something about the photo itself. Even so, knowing where the photo was seen is informative and welcomed by me, even if it may be construed as promotional in nature. Plus, I find that most folks who leave "seen in" group information in whatever form, also do comment specifically about the photo. In those cases, I am particularly happy to know where they saw it. I consider these comments to be far more informative than promotional. In fact, for me, rather than "depreciating the overall quality of the service", they actually serve to enhance the quality of service. Knowing which group a photo may have been seen in, particularly if a number of folks from the same group are commenting on that photo, lets me know it is an active group. I then know where posting my photos might enable me to get more views and through the subsequent discourse, perhaps find new friends. Likewise, the same holds true when I am viewing comments made on the photos of others. The presence of "seen in" comments point me to groups I might want to join, but would never have discovered otherwise. Suggesting, as some do, that I can determine where the photo was seen because the groups it is in are listed on the right, is a specious argument, to say the least. A photo may be in many groups. I have no way of knowing which of them it is actually being seen in, therefore, which are active and may be worth joining.
I firmly believe that individual users should be the ones who police themselves with regard to such comments rather than be dictated to by Ipernity. The tools for doing so already exist for me to use if "seen in" comments are offensive to me. First of all, "seen in" comments will only appear under photos I post in those groups I have chosen to join that want or suggest their use. Since I have chosen to be in such groups, should mean that I don't object to getting the "seen ins". However, if I don't like them, I can always remove them. If I think such comments have become too excessive, I can leave the offending group. If I don't want them at all, I can refrain from joining such groups in the first place. If people veiwing comments on my photos are "bothered" because I have chosen not to delete such "seen in" references in the comments, they do not have to continue reading the comments. If they don't want me in their groups because photos I post to their groups might contain such comments, they can remove me, hopefully letting me know why, so I don't attempt to rejoin. Being dropped would be no loss to me because with such an attitude, I would not want to be a member anyway. Whether and which comments I may desire in my photostream should be no one else's business.
The controversy has resulted in harassment by self appointed police, harsh words and hard feelings from both sides. It has caused caused a number of people (who had wonderful site enhancing photos, I might add) to leave and created more who are contemplating doing so. I am saddened by their loss and the loss of enthusiasm they brought to their participation in this site. In my opinion, all of this, particularly the loss of friends, has been more detrimental to Ipernity's overall "quality of service", than bothersome repetitive comments could ever be.
If fact, one might even argue that since folks already have the tools needed to avoid looking at "seen in" text and images, the truly "bothersome" thing about "seen ins" are the intolerant folks who have stirred up the controversy by appointing themselves site police and ruthlessly harassing others. As it stands now, the absolute ban that Ipernity seems to have placed on any mention of a group in a comment, gives them all the ammunition that they need. They continually point out that Ipernity has a right to make the rules and those who don't like them should leave. Now that folks have begun to leave, I have to ask, is that really what Ipernity wants? I'd like to think not. The fact that Ipernity seems to be trying to work out a compromise, (an ineffective one as it stands) indicates, probably not.
As a club member, I recognize that I should abide by the rules, but I also believe I have a right to ask for a change in the rules if I believe they have a negative impact. So, Ipernity, while my personnal preference would be that folks police their own photostreams as they see fit, I think some compromise is in order. I ask that you exercise a little flexibily with regard to "seen in" comments. Continue to ban repetitive graphic comments if you really believe they detract from the quality of service. Even ban comments that only show where a photo was seen without including a specific comment about the photo itself, if you must. But, at the very least, please give folks the right to add at the end of their comments a simple text only statement, (preferably with links, but without them, if you must, they can always be found in the group list), that informs folks where they saw the photo. This should be regarded as informative rather than promotional in nature, since I, and many others, value such knowledge. I am relatively certain, that most people post photos because they want them to be seen and they want to have discourse with others about their photos, otherwise, what is the point. Knowing where their photos are being seen, aids their ability to achieve these aims, and enhances the value of the site to them. Please don't drive any more folks away!
Jim Boynton has replied to Ceropegia clubThe one thing I would add about stringent following of rules applies to a rather heated discussion I came across when I first came to ipernity. It seems that there was confusion about candids, street photography and recognizable private structures being allowed here due to French laws and ipernity rules. I wish I knew where I had seen that thread so that I could point it out in a link, but I remember the consensus was that even though those shots violated the laws/rules ipernity was taking a hands off approach to them.
If these shots are against the laws/rules (correct me if I am wrong) I can't help but wonder if those users and groups who demand that others follow the 'Seen In' rules are also respecting those rules.
Kathleen Thorpe club has replied to Ceropegia clubI would not call the removal of any photo by a group admin harassment if some of the comments on the photo contain what they deem to be undesirable "spam". They certainly have a right to police their own groups as I acknowledged in my original comment. If none of the members of a "spam-free" group have photos in groups that tolerate so called "spamming", the act of "spamming" content already submitted to the "spam-free" group should not be happening because "seen in" would not apply to any of their photos. If they are members of both types of groups and "seen in" comments appear on a previously "spam free" photo of theirs after it has been posted, I would hardly consider it harassment. Those members can be warned that their participation in both type of groups is not acceptable and then banned if their photos continue to get "seen in" comments.
In retrospect, perhaps I should not have mentioned the occurrence of harassment since it has obviously invited diversion from my original intent, which was a plea to Ipernity to exercise some flexibility regarding the apparent absolute ban on any reference to a group in a comment. I fail to see how a simple text reference to a group when placed after a comment can be regarded as anything other than informative or even be unduly "bothersome" to others. They always have the choice not to look at comments that contain perceived "spam" and not to participate in such groups that want to allow it.
03-03-2014 EDIT
4) You will be able to decide whether group suggestions made on your photos are visible to your visitors or not.
5) Group administrators will define who can suggest to add photos in their group (administrators/moderators only or all the group members)
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ୱ Kiezkickerde ( ͡°… club has replied to Team club2) All the suggested groups will be displayed on top of the comments and visible to all visitors.
3) You will be able to decide if you want to deactivate the feature of group suggestions in your space. In this case, nobody will be able to suggest groups to you.
4) You will be able to decide whether group suggestions made on your photos are visible to your visitors or not.
5) Group administrators will define who can suggest to add photos in their group (administrators/moderators only or all the group members)
2 thru' 5 No Problems there. But 1 is still an Issue you promised to resolve to
1)You can "suggest a group" So you can promote groups as you wish. Spamming in it true form.
You are banned from links to where you saw an image which IP consider Spam. ( Which it is not it is only an acknowledgement to where an images was viewed and valued information so many members want.)
So IP If you continue to ban link backs as Spam then you should show fairness and Ban "suggest a group" as spam also.
What a smallminded statement in a discussion, mikmas101.
Groups haven´t to prohibit anything which was already prohibited at the site these groups are running. To avoid groups in general can´t be a solution for not getting backlinks.
My God ...
Hello all,
"We have taken into account the arguments and suggestions of users that are for and against this and therefore we have decided to bring some improvement to the service that we hope will satisfy everyone".
IP so far you have failed miserably to fulfill their own promises. This has allowed this blog to descend into a “battleground” of insult and intolerance by the few. IP You are not totally responsible for the “few” hijacking this forum, however by your inaction and inability to have introduced by now your own promises on a solution to the ongoing issues here you have failed in your duty of care for the majority who have clearly stated their wishes without insult.