No news, good news ? Pas de nouvelle, bonne nouvelle ?

As a dedicated fan and member of the site, you can bet I'm white-knuckling it here all the way through this process. But I appreciate everyone working hard for a solution. Still feel reason for hope. Thank you for the update.

+1

With you on that +2

Again, I sincerely hope we find an agreement =)

Waiting... its a common pastime around here.

"Team Ipernity"... well Audrey didnt write this.. so are we to assume this is Christophe posting ?

Waiting..... common pastime around here.....

I am not experiencing the triumph of Hope over experience with this post !

No news, good news ??
I really doubt !!

Agree Jaap ++++++++

No news, good news ? What a load of rubbish. Who ever wrote this wants to take a reality check. Crap and loads of it.

Absolutely Tess. It's more stalling BS, to string out negotiations with the hope the IMA will concede. Quite cynical really. I do hope that the valiant IMA reps realise that a cardinal point of negotiation is to signal their willingness to walk away from the negotiation if they are unable to secure a satisfactory offer, or if they suspect they are being played. As they say with Brexit, "No deal is better than a Bad Deal"

Not one of the IMA is stupid...

All have serious business experience... they know very well what they are dealing with.... I am thankful for that as well

Right on the button. No deal is better that a bad Deal. In my opinion William and IMA should just tell IP to put up or shut up.

I think the deadline is: April 28 at twelve o'çlock !!

Merci beaucoup.

Thank you whoever you the sender is.

Thank you for writing this "update", even though it gives us no new information. At least you're trying to keep us hopeful...

That being said, I am done feeling emotions over whether ipernity is saved or not. I feel nothing for it any more. I can only worry so much, and then I'm spent. I have good back up plans if it turns out that ipernity closes. I will feel hope again only when the deal is finalized, not a moment before.

My thanks to IMA for all the hard work they have dedicated to making this work. I hope their efforts are rewarded with the salvation of ipernity.

Yes, we received that e-mail. But it doesn't contain any new facts. It's nothing more than an abstract about what happened the last few weeks, with the purpose to inform Claus-Peter, who had offered his help. The proposal itself and the lawyers draft of the pre-contract are not contained.

~~~~~

Ja, wir haben eine e-mail von Christophe erhalten. Aber sie enthält keine neuen Fakten. In ihr werden lediglich die Vorgänge der letzten Wochen für Claus-Peter zusammengefasst, der seine Hilfe angeboten hatte. Die angekündigten neuen Vorschläge fehlen ebenso wie der anwaltliche Entwurf des Vor-Vertrages.

Not at all surprised...

Thankyou for confirming that Bernhard

I agree, Tess and Kris.

... blablabla

or Blah, Blah, Blah-

Y'all still want to bad-mouth/attack us realists with terms like "cynical" and "negative" for our comments about this whole mess with this site? Sometimes looking at business failures through rose-colored glasses does more harm than good. Those of us who posting warnings & realistic comments were trying to warn folks who have no backups of stuff hosted on this site of impending doom.... I for one know that seeing reality for what it is through unyielding hope that it's something else is a very difficult thing and felt bad for the people who were soooo attached to this IP/SA bunch and site. As long as there are people out there with this blind devotion to this place, the owners will just keep stringing y'all along... They hold all the cards/marbles and really have no incentive to give them up because no one is brave enough to force their hand. Everyone wants to pussyfoot their way around conversations with these folks and bow down to their demands instead of approaching them as owners of a failed business venture.... Sell or lose your investment entirely. The platform is nice, yes, but it isn't completely unique & could, therefore, be replicated/amended onto existing photo sharing communities.

But, I guess us cynical, negative people just don't get the reality of the situation.

I hope the IMA folks haven't wasted all their time and effort trying to keep this ship afloat.... But the realist in me doesn't believe that to be true =( ...

80% out the door... I'm sure I'll get a good shove or two more from staunch supporters of the SS ipernity for daring to post this comment, too.

Waving from my porch...drinking beer,cheerz.

Same here. I've resurrected my Flickr stream and am thankful I was able to complete a task that was forced upon me while we still have control of our content. If the plug gets pulled and the content passes to the Archive Team, we lose control of that content.

Everyone's getting so worked up it's almost amusing.

It's not a bit amusing. Everyone is trying to keep going forward to save the site with the IMA at the helm. It's a great site and I for my part have and hopefully will be into the future have this site as my home.

+1 Yep, Veterok.

Those who predict failure 100% of the time will be right 50% of the time or more. That's just the numbers. So, to me, always saying "nay" is a sucker's trade. Whatever happens, bittering to any and all about it doesn't do us or you any good. And "I told you so" is always less welcome than leprosy, and doubly so before the fact.

Let's see what happens. What say you?

Amennnnnnnn

:)

So the buck has been passed to William, and it's going to be his fault for any delays because he's 'very busy'? I agree with Heidi - bla bla bla bla

Ok.... thanks..++++

I'm still warming up my Flickr account, how long that will stay afloat is anybody's guess.

Okay, now, wait a minute ... I have a question.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the specific financial discussions going on here, and there haven't been a lot of facts out on display anyway, but somebody above said this:

"It is my opinion that IP/Sa have no intention to hand over to the IMA. I reckon they ( IP) will probably go for Bankruptcy. That way they have no responsibility for debts they obviously incurred to date."

Now, it seems to me that any debts Ipernity incurred are Ipernity's, and that they will continue to be Ipernity's should the site be transferred over to the Users Cabal otherwise known as IMA. That's what the fundraising money's going for, right? Am I mistaken in this? Have the negotiators somehow been hoping that Christophe Ruelle would just walk away from Ipernity but take the debts with him? Why would he do this? Where's the logic in that? What would be his incentive?

Think you're on to something there. Why else would the current fundraising program have a $25K target while Ipernity said they will require $50K to 'keep the lights on' for the rest of the year? What if that debt IS the 1% 'sticking point'?

Clint, where the fundraising money's going on for you can read here:
ipernityma.wixsite.com/ipernityma/formal-proposal

The incentive for Christophe would be (inter alia) the preservation of his self-respect.

Another incentive for CR would be, that it might be easier for him to aviod a formal bankrupty. In that case he wouldn't be allowed to lead any company in France for the next fifteen years.

The link only allows the file to be saved, however I remember that we were told that 25K would pay the server rent for that month.

This is the section named.

IMA will utilize crowdfunding donations to provide an emergency cash infusion that will cover March
and April hosting costs (Amazon Web Services estimated 10,000 € ), site administration salary expenses
for April estimated to be 1,100 € by 20 April 2017 contingent upon agreement of the platform transfer
to be completed by 30 April 2017.
● IMA will cover the platform’s May 2017 direct costs (estimated to be 6,100 €) with crowdfunding
donations. This will permit sufficient time for IMA to collect membership dues to sustain the platform
through April 2018.

If the proposal is not accepted Ipernity SA will have this added debt to deal with.

Correctly, John, this list illustrates the whereabouts of raising funds through crowdfunding and is the answer to the question of Clint where or what the fundraising money's going for.

My followup question, then, is whether Ipernity has outstanding debt beyond the March and April hosting fees, and, if so, how much?

If that debt is large enough and I was given the choice of clearing that debt through bankruptcy or giving my company way for free while preserving my self-respect, I think I'd go with the bankruptcy.

Well, again, I think it goes back to the debt question. If he's left with a large debt after having given away his company for free, there's a good chance he won't be leading another company in France anyway.

Clint, about the amount of debt beyond the hosting fees for March and April,
I can not give any information. Please address this question to Christophe ( Help & Contact ) and / or the founders of IMA : www.ipernity.com/group/2260604.

"If debts are large enough", everybody has the choice how to handle with it.
However, in the end, everyone shoots itself in the foot when s/he lets innocent people bleed for his / her own failure.

"However, in the end, everyone shoots itself in the foot when s/he lets innocent people bleed for his / her own failure."

Well, now, that's a little melodramatic, don't you think? "Let innocent people bleed"? Mr. Ruelle started a business to provide a service. We bought that service, but ultimately, the business didn't prove viable, so the service has to end. But it's not like he was curing cancer or feeding hungry children. Shutting the business down isn't going to physically hurt anyone. I'll be sad when Ipernity shuts down, but I don't think I'll start bleeding.

The debt question is important, and it hints a little at what Doug's saying below. And while you may not know the answer, it's something that should be of great interest to the leaders of the IMA. At the very least, it would factor into how one handles the negotiations. But the leaders of the IMA are hoping to take the Ipernity platform and its entire user base ... or, in other words, anything the company has that might be considered an asset. On top of that, it wants to do that for free. But any creditors the company might have can't be fans of that kind of deal, and while I don't know French law, in America that sort of thing would likely result in litigation. The CEO of a company is not typically responsible for that company's debt. The company is, and if the IMA becomes the company, then the IMA is responsible. So I certainly hope that at least the IMA knows what debts the company has.

In short, the IMA can't expect to be able to simply grab Ipernity's assets while ignoring the liabilities. If that's the plan, then the plan is faulty. If it's not the plan and there are no liabilities, then it needs to be made clear.

You have written: "If that debt is large enough and I was given the choice of clearing that debt through bankruptcy or giving my company way for free while preserving my self-respect, I think I'd go with the bankruptcy.". So my answer "However, in the end, everyone shoots itself in the foot when s/he lets innocent people bleed for his / her own failure.", was adressed to you and not to Christophe. If you spoke for him, you should have communicated this in wise foresight. ;)

Do you seriously think that mental injuries are less fatal than physical ones?
You write: " I'll be sad when Ipernity shuts down, but I don't think I'll start bleeding.", but you can speek only for yourself. I feel the deep psychological pain of so many members here, many who have found true friends, sincere sympathy, affection, etc. Things that nourish the soul or warm the heart, whatever you like. Of course there is also the opposite: Prejudices, hate like poison, contempt, arbitrariness, etc..
Unfortunately, also Christophe is affected by such members of the community, although he has provided us here with a service which is without compare as many of us know, and deserves sincere gratitude.
However, it should not be overlooked that probably all the membership contributions to Ipernity S.A, which have so far been made for the future, will probably not be refunded. If Christophe wanted to reimburse them against all previous assumptions, he would have even more debt. Will he do this? Who knows?

"In short, the IMA can't expect to be able to simply grab Ipernity's assets while ignoring the liabilities. If that's the plan, then the plan is faulty. " :
The negotiating IMA founders are no laymen and no scammers. They have exceptional skills and accomplish superhuman achievements and earn our confidence and our sincere gratitude like Christophe.

"If it's not the plan and there are no liabilities, then it needs to be made clear.":
It can and should be made clear when the time has come.

So it is up to us all, the negotiating partners to show the necessary respect and to be grateful for all their efforts.

You have written: "Do you seriously think that mental injuries are less fatal than physical ones?"

There can certainly be mental injuries that cause harm comparable to physical injuries. Losing a favorite web site is not such an injury. This is not a fatal blow. I can say with a high level of confidence that nobody's going to die as a result of this shut down. Some people will be sad for a little while, and then they'll find something else to do.

I find it puzzling just how many of the users of this site feel as if Mr. Ruelle has entered into some sort of unbreakable, everlasting moral contract to provide for the emotional well-being of Ipernity's users. Yes, it's a great site and all, and yes, a lot of fine relationships have come of it, but the thing doesn't make money. If you start a business, and that business doesn't make money, then there's nothing wrong with pulling the plug. If the IMA takes this thing over and the financial course continues to run into the ground, they're going to pull the plug. Doing so is not some great black mark on a person's soul, any more than the closure of a favorite restaurant down the street.

"However, it should not be overlooked that probably all the membership contributions to Ipernity S.A, which have so far been made for the future, will probably not be refunded."

Of course they won't, and it's foolish for anybody to think they would. IMA has already said that the company won't honor these subscriptions after their takeover, and once the takeover is made, Mr. Ruelle will have no way to honor them. I'm personally going to lose 6 months either way. The users could respond with a class action against Mr. Ruelle--or, for that matter, against IMA-owned Ipernity--if they wanted, but I doubt they will. And if they do, it will be resolved in bankruptcy, as I doubt Mr. Ruelle has the capacity to pay this debt along with whatever else the IMA is hoping to get Ipernity to skip out on. And rest assured, it is Ipernity that's skipping out on these debts. And if after May, you're Ipernity, then that's you.

"The negotiating IMA founders are no laymen and no scammers. They have exceptional skills and accomplish superhuman achievements ..."

Well, it would indeed be a superhuman achievement to talk a guy into giving away his company and all its assets while taking the debt this company incurred on himself. And as I've said before, it's probably illegal and will open the IMA and all its users up to litigation from the creditors.

"So it is up to us all, the negotiating partners to show the necessary respect ..."

I think of healthy skepticism as a form of respect. And if a bad deal looks like a bad deal, it's respectful to point that out.

"Losing a favorite web site is not such an injury."

This may be true for you personally but it is not a generally binding standard for all people.

"I find it puzzling just how many of the users of this site feel as if Mr. Ruelle has entered into some sort of unbreakable..."

Mr. Ruelle is certainly not obliged to take care of the emotional well-being of the community members, but as a "primal father" of Ipernity, his company, he is responsible for distributing (even) financial loads evenly to all members of the community, at least after a limited, free trial period (for those who really could not afford the membership fee or can not afford, there is the possibility of donations by friends, relatives or other persons). Unfortunately, this did not happen in time or even when there were signs that the boat was threatening to sink. However, I do not want to go deeper into the details here, because on this topic other members of the community have already said everything that was to be said.

"Well, it would indeed be a superhuman achievement to talk a guy into giving away his company...

Presumptions are not facts, and they do more harm than good as long as they can not be confirmed.

"I think of healthy skepticism as a form of respect. And if a bad deal looks like a bad deal, it's respectful to point that out."

Clint, healthy skepticism is justified and indeed a form of respect since everything is possible, but what goes beyond it is too much of a good thing.

That's all I can tell you and wish you and all of us only the very best.

... he is responsible for distributing (even) financial loads evenly to all members of the community, at least after a limited, free trial period ...

That's a really weird read of the terms of service. His responsibility is not and has never been to distribute the financial load evenly to his customers. His responsibility was to give us someplace to display our pictures for a set fee. And really, he still has not stopped doing this. He won't stop doing this until he flips the switch to turn the thing off. Now, maybe he should have raised that fee, and maybe he should have taken better advantage of windfall moments like the flickr flight that brought people like me here. And maybe it might have been a good idea to not alienate so many people with that stupid comment code war or the persistent issues with content censorship. Who knows? He did what he did, and doing something else might have been worse. But that's all water under the bridge now, because the business can't make money.

And that's the thing. Ipernity has always been a business. It's not a commune. It's not a cooperative. It's not a charity. Every one of us has always known that it's a business, and the only responsibilities of any business are to serve its customers and make enough money to break even. And when it stops breaking even, it's time for that business to close, no matter how sad that might make the customers.

Exactly, Clint, Ipernity has always been a business. It's not a commune. It's not a cooperative. It's not a charity. Therefore membership fees should have been compulsory for all (after a limited, free trial period), and then there would have been enough money - with almost absolute certainty.
But the chance is lost and it is now necessary to save what is to be saved, because in such a situation simply to pull the plug, is decidedly too easy.

Whatever happens, the IMA founders have done everything in their strength and gave their best.

...then there would have been enough money - with almost absolute certainty.

I highly doubt the accuracy of that. I don't think that would have saved much money or increased the paid memberships, but it would have resulted in a more insular community with returns diminishing even more quickly than they did. But it's irrelevant, as that's not what happened. The business decisions were made, and all the backseat management from the peanut gallery isn't going to change what's on the spreadsheet for this business right now. Should'ves are a dime a dozen, and they're all irrelevant.

I also dispute that pulling the plug is the easy answer. If it were that easy, Mr. Ruelle would have just done it as planned on January 31 and probably saved himself a lot of the expenses the IMA is trying to stick him with. But no, a bunch of smart people told him they had a plan but they just needed time, so Mr. Ruelle agreed to keep the lights on. And while those smart people have certainly worked hard, I wonder if they've done everything they could have. I mean, there's at least a month's worth of expenses Ipernity wouldn't have had if Mr. Ruelle hadn't given the IMA time that the IMA is trying to shrug off. People here are spending a lot of time demonizing the guy, but the problem could have been solved a lot more painlessly for him if he'd pulled the plug three months ago.

Clint, regrettably, there are in fact people here who are trying to demonize Mr. Ruelle, but do you not do that also with "a bunch of smart people" of IMA?
Applying double standards? An absolute NO GO.

I know we in America live in an era where calling somebody smart is an insult, and that seems to taking hold in France and other nations, but I don't believe I've demonized anybody. I called them smart. You and others have also called them smart. We're in agreement on this point. So where's the demonization?

Also a NO GO: misrepresenting somebody else's statements.

No, we're not in agreement on this point.
When and where I also have called them smart (especially in the same context as you), except that I quoted you, and that in connection with your above comments about them? Why do you impute such things to me? Please provide valid proof of your allegations about me.

Please provide valid proof of your allegations about me.

Your capacity for inexplicable outrage over trivial things is almost as impressive as your haughty demand for "proof" of things that are written immediately above your comment ... though honestly that seems to have always been a thing with the culture of this site. You should be happy! Nobody's going to drain your blood! At least not until the IMA runs out of money in six months or a year and this entire process replays itself, causing the innocents to perish. I'll raise a glass to your memory.

Behave.

OVER AND OUT, PLEASE.
THE DISCUSSION IS DISGUSTING.

I don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but I have learned through past experience that when something doesn't seem to make sense (i.e., Christophe's behavior with this deal), it usually involves money. :-/

I do think if the IMA is successful in its takeover, you should declare an annual holiday and call it the Coup of 9 Floréal.

To all,

IMA will have a formal response by no later than 10:30 AM GMT 26 April to Christophe. We had discussions all day since in our unanimous view there has been nothing substantive over the last few days.

We are hoping this response can address Christophe's legal concerns as well as the interests of everyone here and are hoping it will result in a favorable outcome.

Please try and remain optimistic since all parties remain engaged. Thank you for your patience.

Thank you William
We will wait.

Thank you, William.

THANK YOU CHRISTOPHE & WILLIAM (AND THE OTHER IMA FOUNDERS)!!

I'm really sorry to see people making negative comments at this point. Seems that we get negative comments whether we get communication from IMA or Ipernity S.A. or not. It's not that I don't feel the tension around this going to the last minute to resolve, it's that I am trying to channel my reactions to a productive end.

Whether we end or stay, I would like the transition to be done with grace.

Raingirl you expressed it better than I could with my english.
+1

+1

IF people feel negative it is all down to Christophe's handling of the negotiations between IP and IMA. One day all going well and possitive the next day he decides not to hand over the IP site to the IMA. I feel sorry for William and Team to be treated this way. And I add that the loyal members of IP have had to put up with this crap from Christophe.

William Sutherland
Good evening,

22 April 2017: Three days ago Christophe, President and CEO of Ipernity S.A. sent notification that he accepted IMA's proposal and stated readiness to give IMA access codes to the team account, support tools, and moderation tools as well as posting an announcement of his acceptance.

By the next day, he had changed his mind. I was hoping would have reconsidered by now so I could avoid making this announcement. Since he has not, I think people should be informed.

Thankyou William and all in the IMA

Thanks for the update

Willam (and IMA) thanks for the latest news.

as qualified rescue service: www.ipernity.com/home/1058283

Is there a shaman in the house?

Not yet. But maybe an good idea!
;-))

LOL. Could do with one.

How about a shamus?

They only profisy from the Blarney stone.

You rang ?? :)))

Breaking News:

www.ipernity.com/doc/serola/44688310/in/activity

Hallo Bergfex,

Curiously, the link you gave directed me to a photo belonging to Jean-Pierre Douence (?). I used this link: www.ipernity.com/doc/serola/44688310

Need to trim the URL - the /in/activity/ suffix simply redirects me to the last upload from one of my contacts.

:-D

This has already been reposted. I saw it almost 50 minutes after it was posted. If anyone missed it:

www.ipernity.com/group/2260604/discuss/186918

Thank you for the update, and many thanks to IMA for seeing this through. The wait should finally be over very soon one way or the other...

Whichever way this goes ... we have a great group to THANK ... not just the IMA/William -- but all who have posted updates .. kept track of this Saga ...
ALL are thanked -
Period

Peggy C

I agree, Peggy C. A core of members took the effort to save the site beyond talk, to action. They have my total respect and thanks for that.

+1

"There can certainly be mental injuries that cause harm comparable to physical injuries. Losing a favorite web site is not such an injury. This is not a fatal blow. I can say with a high level of confidence that nobody's going to die as a result of this shut down. Some people will be sad for a little while, and then they'll find something else to do."

Well put.
Personally, I too am committed to saving the site and paying for it as well, since I like both the platform and its userbase. But I also see a somewhat big difference between mental injuries (which I have) and a site on the Internet. This is a site on the Internet.

Yes, Veterok., it is a site on the internet, but there are human beings behind it, with feelings,
and none of them should be despised.

Curiously, that's exactly what I'm thinking too.

i was being sarcastic.

i have been sitting on my hands till now.what was that about pulling the plug?
eta.
check team blog.

Hi everyone,

I've received today the final proposal from the IMA.... I replied I was ok to accept.

Papers will be signed / sent tomorrow...

I'm very affected by some of the comments I've seen on the last post,.. I've been doing my best and worked hard to let ipernity survive... I don't see many person who would have worked as much as I did, without any other interest to keep the service online.

Kind Regards

Christophe.

Breaking NEWS (Posting from Christophe Ruelle):
www.ipernity.com/blog/team/4659568

That's GOOD NEWS, finally.
At last Christophe has made up his mind and agreed to the offer (unchanged)
.
And now the other work must begin.

Hopefully this will include asking the General Members for their opinions and input here including Constructive critisism. Freeriders are not welcome but a three month trial period for the existing active accounts plus any new users should they wish to try before buy.

I very much appreciate the work being put into keeping this active, but would appreciate some news about renewals. Having given relatively well to the self-funding for saving Ipernity, I'm feeling hesitant about filing a $59 renewal that seems to be to the previous company.

It's not necessary to make the $59 renewals!
The takeover will last 4-8 weeks. Therefore a 3+1 month (gift) renewal is enough.

Thanks for getting back to me. I had heard about doing it that way, but I'm not finding a way to do that. The system seems to be only setup to do the 3 month for new members, not for renewals.